Your Warcraft III username: Arythazin
Violator's Warcraft III username: Cleobattler
Game name or map name: Tom & Jerry 2013 [v2.00]
Stats page link: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=2386964
Rule player violated: Maphacking
Time of incidents (Note in-game timer or replay timer): 14:13
Any further thoughts:
The particular incident above occurs near the breach in the bottom right corner of pink's walls, close to the left-side towers. I was sending in an invisible unit, Cleobattler aimed a firebat's flame skill right on top of him. The exact location of this (like 200-300 range away from a tower that was not attacking) means that there was no way he was able to see invisible units at the time (further displayed by the lack of any scouts).
[Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
Moderator: ENT Staff
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Cleobattler
- Armored Tree
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:44 pm
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
Thanks for posting the replay, but unfortunately it only shows how I played the game but not the reasoning that was going on in my mind at that time. Let me shed some light on this game, to both you and the mod processing this request.
At that time I only had 2 towers, a half health hero, and three firebats, one of which had only 20 hp left. Your level 5 green cat was obviously strong enough to finish my base off, but instead you suddenly chose to retreat. So I asked myself, "there's only one missing barricade from my line of walls, why isn't he worried that my mouse would just go back and rebuild it?" The answer's simple. You WANT my mouse to go rebuild it.
As an experienced player I saw right away the three reasons for your retreat. The first was the Scroll of Power. Your green cat was at level 5, which means you just needed to buy one Scroll of Power to reach level 6 and get the ultimate skill that comes with it. That ultimate skill happens to be Invisibility, which allows the green cat to turn friendly land units including itself invisible for 10 seconds and would be a perfect tool to ambush my mouse with when I go rebuild the missing barricade. The second possibility was the Invisibility Potion. I was aware that your teammates could just consume one of those and camp near that puncture in my line of walls and ambush my mouse when I go rebuild. In fact, they could already be near that area since none of your teammates were in my line of sight at that time. Again, I was simply too insightful and experienced to fall for this trick. Also I've scouted your 3 o'clock base earlier and saw that you already built a barracks there, which makes Spirit Walkers the third possible reason for your cat's retreat. In summary, it was obvious to me that you were planning to use invisibility against my mouse.
Since I've decided not to go rebuild that missing barricade, how else can your invisibility units ambush my mouse? That's right. There's only one possible path wide enough for you to fit any invisible attackers through the left part of my base: the path between my towers and my top wall of barricades. Hence I kept my mouse at the back and used the Firebat's skill to check if there really were invisible units trying to fit through that path. That was when your Spirit Walker was caught in the process, and your plans to ambush me with an invisibility unit foiled. My reasoning was correct.
I don't maphack, and I hate maphackers as much as those who support fairplay do. Of course, I understand how difficult it is for average players like you to believe there are skilled and experienced gamers like me who are capable of such sublime awareness without any use of maphacks, but I still hope this explanation more than propitiates any more apprehension you may have for my gaming probity.
At that time I only had 2 towers, a half health hero, and three firebats, one of which had only 20 hp left. Your level 5 green cat was obviously strong enough to finish my base off, but instead you suddenly chose to retreat. So I asked myself, "there's only one missing barricade from my line of walls, why isn't he worried that my mouse would just go back and rebuild it?" The answer's simple. You WANT my mouse to go rebuild it.
As an experienced player I saw right away the three reasons for your retreat. The first was the Scroll of Power. Your green cat was at level 5, which means you just needed to buy one Scroll of Power to reach level 6 and get the ultimate skill that comes with it. That ultimate skill happens to be Invisibility, which allows the green cat to turn friendly land units including itself invisible for 10 seconds and would be a perfect tool to ambush my mouse with when I go rebuild the missing barricade. The second possibility was the Invisibility Potion. I was aware that your teammates could just consume one of those and camp near that puncture in my line of walls and ambush my mouse when I go rebuild. In fact, they could already be near that area since none of your teammates were in my line of sight at that time. Again, I was simply too insightful and experienced to fall for this trick. Also I've scouted your 3 o'clock base earlier and saw that you already built a barracks there, which makes Spirit Walkers the third possible reason for your cat's retreat. In summary, it was obvious to me that you were planning to use invisibility against my mouse.
Since I've decided not to go rebuild that missing barricade, how else can your invisibility units ambush my mouse? That's right. There's only one possible path wide enough for you to fit any invisible attackers through the left part of my base: the path between my towers and my top wall of barricades. Hence I kept my mouse at the back and used the Firebat's skill to check if there really were invisible units trying to fit through that path. That was when your Spirit Walker was caught in the process, and your plans to ambush me with an invisibility unit foiled. My reasoning was correct.
I don't maphack, and I hate maphackers as much as those who support fairplay do. Of course, I understand how difficult it is for average players like you to believe there are skilled and experienced gamers like me who are capable of such sublime awareness without any use of maphacks, but I still hope this explanation more than propitiates any more apprehension you may have for my gaming probity.
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
My hero was actually at under half hp, and combined with 4 towers, those firebats and the hero, I would not be able to break through those towers and get through to the side that your mouse was at, not at the hp I was at. So I decided to actually heal up. I guess that doesn't mean that you still couldn't suspect invisible units, so here we go. (EDIT, it was actually two towers now that I check, but I was also around 1/3 hp left rather than 1/2, so there you go; I will would have died trying to finish you off, especially if you threw cheese at me with your main mouse. And even if I COULD pull it off and finish off your base with my remaining hp, it was a risk I didn't need to take; I could just heal up and fight more comfortably rather than risk losing all my units).
Your claim of "checking passage with firebats" doesn't match up with what you see in the replay. For one thing, you had multiple firebats but used only one to use flamethrower (which landed directly on my spirit walker). The fact that you were sending the rest of your firebats ahead and away from the passage separating the left and right portions of your base means that you were pretty confident that one firebat could thoroughly "check" that there were invisible units there. Now the question is, why would you cast flamethrower right on top of my spirit walker at that position? My spirit walker was a good 300 yards away from the tower when you shot at it; unlike the narrow passage above your towers where my spirit walker would barely fit, you instead shot at a "random" spot out in the open, which happened to be the exact direction and location of my spirit walker. If you had shot it at that choke near the towers (the ONLY open passage to the side of your base with mouse) it would be plausible that you were "checking" for invisible units. As it was though, that random flamethrower shot combined with sending your other units further to the right near the entrance I made means that
1) You were fairly confident that you could "check for invisible units" with one flamethrower guy and
2) you were fairly confident that my guy was out in the open. Let's expand on point two for a bit: since you were using only one firebat in that area, you were fairly certain that there was 'possibly' a spirit walker RIGHT in that location and only one, since one firebat was all you needed.
In short, Mods I really hope you just look at the video and see exactly how he shot a flamethrower RIGHT ON TOP of my spirit walker. Keep in mind that
1) it was literally RIGHT ON TOP. Flamethower has a generously wide AoE but he managed to pinpoint it right on top of my guy.
2) He shot it right on top of my guy with no possible hint as to the location of my spirit walker. It would be one thing to see an invisible unit for a second, lose track of that invisible unit, and use good estimation to guess where my spirit walker would be. However, from the moment I spawned the spirit walker (which is out of Cleobattler's sight) to the moment he was sniped by Cleobattler's flamethrower, my guy was never seen due to a lack of any truesight units in Cleobattler's mini army. Despite that, I repeat that he managed to PINPOINT snipe my invisible guy that he never saw until then.
3) He claims he was checking for invisible units, but instead of having all his firebats checking and at good points like the entrance or the passage near the towers, he used only one firebat and "checked" at the exact spot my spirit walker was at. That is very poor form in "checking for invisible units" unless he already knew that invisible guy was at that exact spot.
Just please look at the video and consider exactly how peculiar that shot was. I could consider shooting invisible units with flamethowers plausible in other situations, but this one was just unbelievable. It doesn't help that he took off without answering in-game when I asked how he saw my invisible guy.
Also Cleobattler, I know you are a really good player, but that just pisses me off more when you rely on maphacks to pull off stupid shit. You are already good enough with your own skills, you don't need to suddenly make everything cheap in your favor by using maphacks.
EDIT#2. I re-watched replay to check what you were doing with your mouse after I left the base to heal up (and send in my spirit walker). You said you suspected invisible units, but if that was the case then why did you not take any precautions against invisibles other than that one flame shot? Invisible units like spirit walkers was only one of the three possible scenarios you mentioned, but if my hero or my ally's hero was invisible and in your base, one simple flame shot would not kill or reveal us. Despite that, after that one shot with the firebat, you spent a good ~20 seconds controlling your firebats and panda before actually starting to wall up with your mouse, at around 14:39.
Basically, for being worried about invisible units you sure were very FINE with leaving your mouse out in the open for a good 25 seconds.
Your claim of "checking passage with firebats" doesn't match up with what you see in the replay. For one thing, you had multiple firebats but used only one to use flamethrower (which landed directly on my spirit walker). The fact that you were sending the rest of your firebats ahead and away from the passage separating the left and right portions of your base means that you were pretty confident that one firebat could thoroughly "check" that there were invisible units there. Now the question is, why would you cast flamethrower right on top of my spirit walker at that position? My spirit walker was a good 300 yards away from the tower when you shot at it; unlike the narrow passage above your towers where my spirit walker would barely fit, you instead shot at a "random" spot out in the open, which happened to be the exact direction and location of my spirit walker. If you had shot it at that choke near the towers (the ONLY open passage to the side of your base with mouse) it would be plausible that you were "checking" for invisible units. As it was though, that random flamethrower shot combined with sending your other units further to the right near the entrance I made means that
1) You were fairly confident that you could "check for invisible units" with one flamethrower guy and
2) you were fairly confident that my guy was out in the open. Let's expand on point two for a bit: since you were using only one firebat in that area, you were fairly certain that there was 'possibly' a spirit walker RIGHT in that location and only one, since one firebat was all you needed.
In short, Mods I really hope you just look at the video and see exactly how he shot a flamethrower RIGHT ON TOP of my spirit walker. Keep in mind that
1) it was literally RIGHT ON TOP. Flamethower has a generously wide AoE but he managed to pinpoint it right on top of my guy.
2) He shot it right on top of my guy with no possible hint as to the location of my spirit walker. It would be one thing to see an invisible unit for a second, lose track of that invisible unit, and use good estimation to guess where my spirit walker would be. However, from the moment I spawned the spirit walker (which is out of Cleobattler's sight) to the moment he was sniped by Cleobattler's flamethrower, my guy was never seen due to a lack of any truesight units in Cleobattler's mini army. Despite that, I repeat that he managed to PINPOINT snipe my invisible guy that he never saw until then.
3) He claims he was checking for invisible units, but instead of having all his firebats checking and at good points like the entrance or the passage near the towers, he used only one firebat and "checked" at the exact spot my spirit walker was at. That is very poor form in "checking for invisible units" unless he already knew that invisible guy was at that exact spot.
Just please look at the video and consider exactly how peculiar that shot was. I could consider shooting invisible units with flamethowers plausible in other situations, but this one was just unbelievable. It doesn't help that he took off without answering in-game when I asked how he saw my invisible guy.
Also Cleobattler, I know you are a really good player, but that just pisses me off more when you rely on maphacks to pull off stupid shit. You are already good enough with your own skills, you don't need to suddenly make everything cheap in your favor by using maphacks.
EDIT#2. I re-watched replay to check what you were doing with your mouse after I left the base to heal up (and send in my spirit walker). You said you suspected invisible units, but if that was the case then why did you not take any precautions against invisibles other than that one flame shot? Invisible units like spirit walkers was only one of the three possible scenarios you mentioned, but if my hero or my ally's hero was invisible and in your base, one simple flame shot would not kill or reveal us. Despite that, after that one shot with the firebat, you spent a good ~20 seconds controlling your firebats and panda before actually starting to wall up with your mouse, at around 14:39.
Basically, for being worried about invisible units you sure were very FINE with leaving your mouse out in the open for a good 25 seconds.
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Cleobattler
- Armored Tree
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:44 pm
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
I'd like to begin by pointing out a typo that I made in my previous post. The invisible unit we're discussing here is actually called Ghost Walker, not Spirit Walker.
Whether your real intention of retreating from my base was to heal up, or to wait for my mouse to rebuild that missing barricade, wouldn't have mattered to our discussion either way, since conscientious players like me would interpret your move anyway as a preparation to ambush my mouse through invisible means.
I cannot agree with you that the place where I aimed the flamethrower was "at a random spot out in the open". I chose to use my flamethrower there because that open area is the entrance to the left part of my base, and as you said, the entrance is a "good point" to check for invisible units. Also as you said, the flamethrower skill has a generously wide AOE, hence it would have been a waste any way to use the skill on just that narrow passage between my top walls and towers. The major reason why I chose that spot to use my flamethrower, however, is because after evaluating your skill level, I believed that even if you really did have the foresight to send invisible units to my base, as I conjectured earlier, the unit would only have gone as far as that area and not yet to the left part of my base. This is often how meticulously I calculate my opponents' motives. Hence your assumption that I have "no possible hint as to the location of [your] Ghost Walker" is incorrect.
You did raise a good question though. If I really were concerned about invisible units in my base, shouldn't I use more than just one flamethrower at different areas of my base to make sure there aren't any more such units or traps? In fact, you're right. That was what I was about to do when suddenly another tide-turning event took place and changed my mind. Let's revisit the replay.
At around 14:13, as soon as I commanded one of my Firebats to use his skill, your teammate Darkevolucion emerged from the northern part of my fog of war and charged towards my base at full velocity. Two hypotheses flashed through my mind upon his arrival. First of all, following the death of your Ghost Walker, Darkevolucion was actually worried that my mouse would go rebuild my barricades, implying your team had no other backup plan, such as invisible units, to prevent that from happening. At this point I was already quite certain my base was cleared of invisible units. Shortly after, your green cat showed up as well, still at level 5 and thus without your ultimate skill. This confirmed my first hypothesis - you had no more invisibility cards to play for the time being. Second of all, knowing that your Storm Hammer already cooled down by then and that my Lumber Mill would be destroyed soon, I postulated that you'd decide to just finish off my forces in a direct fight, since with your teammate by your side that'd be the quickest and easiest way to finish me off. This means my other Firebats' flamethrower skill would be better used to help repulse your invasion rather than to do any more unnecessary invisibility checks, since from my first hypothesis I already knew you don't have any more invisible units and thus explaining why I only used one Firebat to check for invisible units in that area and not the others.
Nonetheless from the numerous times you stressed how my flamethrower landed "directly" and "right on top of" your Ghost Walker even after reading my previous post, I can tell the main reason why you're still so adamant that I used maphack is because you just can't believe how much my mind managed to analyze in such a short amount of time to arrive at the conclusion of using my flamethrower at that specific area. As a closing statement I'd say that taking your current experience and skill level into account, what you call maphack is just a natural form of subliminal awareness for me. I believe this post as well as my previous one are about as detailed as I could explain myself, but due to the many layers of my explanation and the complexity of my mind, you may need to review my posts a few times to achieve satisfactory comprehension.
Whether your real intention of retreating from my base was to heal up, or to wait for my mouse to rebuild that missing barricade, wouldn't have mattered to our discussion either way, since conscientious players like me would interpret your move anyway as a preparation to ambush my mouse through invisible means.
I cannot agree with you that the place where I aimed the flamethrower was "at a random spot out in the open". I chose to use my flamethrower there because that open area is the entrance to the left part of my base, and as you said, the entrance is a "good point" to check for invisible units. Also as you said, the flamethrower skill has a generously wide AOE, hence it would have been a waste any way to use the skill on just that narrow passage between my top walls and towers. The major reason why I chose that spot to use my flamethrower, however, is because after evaluating your skill level, I believed that even if you really did have the foresight to send invisible units to my base, as I conjectured earlier, the unit would only have gone as far as that area and not yet to the left part of my base. This is often how meticulously I calculate my opponents' motives. Hence your assumption that I have "no possible hint as to the location of [your] Ghost Walker" is incorrect.
You did raise a good question though. If I really were concerned about invisible units in my base, shouldn't I use more than just one flamethrower at different areas of my base to make sure there aren't any more such units or traps? In fact, you're right. That was what I was about to do when suddenly another tide-turning event took place and changed my mind. Let's revisit the replay.
At around 14:13, as soon as I commanded one of my Firebats to use his skill, your teammate Darkevolucion emerged from the northern part of my fog of war and charged towards my base at full velocity. Two hypotheses flashed through my mind upon his arrival. First of all, following the death of your Ghost Walker, Darkevolucion was actually worried that my mouse would go rebuild my barricades, implying your team had no other backup plan, such as invisible units, to prevent that from happening. At this point I was already quite certain my base was cleared of invisible units. Shortly after, your green cat showed up as well, still at level 5 and thus without your ultimate skill. This confirmed my first hypothesis - you had no more invisibility cards to play for the time being. Second of all, knowing that your Storm Hammer already cooled down by then and that my Lumber Mill would be destroyed soon, I postulated that you'd decide to just finish off my forces in a direct fight, since with your teammate by your side that'd be the quickest and easiest way to finish me off. This means my other Firebats' flamethrower skill would be better used to help repulse your invasion rather than to do any more unnecessary invisibility checks, since from my first hypothesis I already knew you don't have any more invisible units and thus explaining why I only used one Firebat to check for invisible units in that area and not the others.
Nonetheless from the numerous times you stressed how my flamethrower landed "directly" and "right on top of" your Ghost Walker even after reading my previous post, I can tell the main reason why you're still so adamant that I used maphack is because you just can't believe how much my mind managed to analyze in such a short amount of time to arrive at the conclusion of using my flamethrower at that specific area. As a closing statement I'd say that taking your current experience and skill level into account, what you call maphack is just a natural form of subliminal awareness for me. I believe this post as well as my previous one are about as detailed as I could explain myself, but due to the many layers of my explanation and the complexity of my mind, you may need to review my posts a few times to achieve satisfactory comprehension.
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
Throughout all your posts, you still have not once listed a reason for accurately blasting my ghost walker other than "you predicted it was there." That is such a bare-bones claim that literally anyone could make, especially considering that you 'predicted' it was there based on your 'judgment' alone.
You had no prior sight of the Ghost Walker, and during the whole time the base was open you just suddenly "believed that a unit made it that far." In addition, you sniped my ghost walker when he was in between the entrance to the left side and the hole I made with storm hammer; he was at neither 'entrance,' according to your words. Yet in the whole time that I had broken a hole in your wall (~13:25) you never did anything to counter invisible units OTHER than to snipe my Ghost walker.
I'll repeat, its one thing to predict invisible units coming, which anyone would do; its another thing to 1) completely leave your mouse in the open the whole time from when i broke your wall to when you finally walled up around ~14:30, and 2) literally snipe the only invisible unit I sent in and then never do any sort of check ever again. You claim that you were taking precautions against invisible units but your carelessness with your mouse (leaving it out in the open) and control over your army, firebats included, means that you were not worried about invisible units catching your mouse at all. What if you had missed the potential invisible units? They would have gone to your mouse and killed him. However, you "predicted where my invisible unit was" and therefore only needed to blast him and you'd be safe.
Every person reacts to invisible units by trying to protect themselves against them, but only a maphacker would just up and dead-center blast the invisible units that they can't see. You can claim that you predicted my guy was in the middle of nowhere (because he was in the middle of nowhere; he was neither at the entrance of your base nor at the entrance to your left side of the base) but I can also claim that you can easily predict where something is if you can see them.
Also:
Really dude? How in the world do you manage to type that seriously.
You had no prior sight of the Ghost Walker, and during the whole time the base was open you just suddenly "believed that a unit made it that far." In addition, you sniped my ghost walker when he was in between the entrance to the left side and the hole I made with storm hammer; he was at neither 'entrance,' according to your words. Yet in the whole time that I had broken a hole in your wall (~13:25) you never did anything to counter invisible units OTHER than to snipe my Ghost walker.
I'll repeat, its one thing to predict invisible units coming, which anyone would do; its another thing to 1) completely leave your mouse in the open the whole time from when i broke your wall to when you finally walled up around ~14:30, and 2) literally snipe the only invisible unit I sent in and then never do any sort of check ever again. You claim that you were taking precautions against invisible units but your carelessness with your mouse (leaving it out in the open) and control over your army, firebats included, means that you were not worried about invisible units catching your mouse at all. What if you had missed the potential invisible units? They would have gone to your mouse and killed him. However, you "predicted where my invisible unit was" and therefore only needed to blast him and you'd be safe.
Every person reacts to invisible units by trying to protect themselves against them, but only a maphacker would just up and dead-center blast the invisible units that they can't see. You can claim that you predicted my guy was in the middle of nowhere (because he was in the middle of nowhere; he was neither at the entrance of your base nor at the entrance to your left side of the base) but I can also claim that you can easily predict where something is if you can see them.
Also:
Cleobattler wrote:I believe this post as well as my previous one are about as detailed as I could explain myself, but due to the many layers of my explanation and the complexity of my mind, you may need to review my posts a few times to achieve satisfactory comprehension.
Really dude? How in the world do you manage to type that seriously.
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Burn
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Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
I'm aware that this indeed does look very suspicious, but after playing thousands of Island Defense games and a bit of Tom and Jerry, I can safely say that there is not enough proof of maphack just by this incident alone. Jerrys use invis often to prevent re-barricading, and a spirit walker is merely just one of those ways. Maybe if you pointed out multiple suspicious incidents in a single replay out of his hundreds of replays, it would help your case.
This incident could very well be maphack, but could also be a situation caused by luck/skill.
At around 10m to 11:30, green cat also uses invis to try to kill mouse, but he backs really quickly. He also does a suspicious move of walling around the mine at around 10m to 11m, but mines are visible for a few seconds after placement.
For other mods out there reviewing, this replay also has a false fog click on hero spawn:[spoiler=]There is also a fog click recorded at around 21 to 22seconds into the game:
0:21 |cFFFFC0CBCleobattler|r clicked |cff8080FFCat House
Note, the user does have his selection off his mouse for a short period of time, and a yellow selection circle on the shop, but it stays there and the mouse continues to move. But, there is no click registered on DRM, which makes it likely that it is a false negative.
Need confirmation from another staff member, or someone to test this in-game.[/spoiler]@aRt)Y @Metall-Drago @I3omb
If anyone has already played Tom and Jerry enough times to tell that this is a glitch, feel free to do so. @seacow
-Burn
This incident could very well be maphack, but could also be a situation caused by luck/skill.
At around 10m to 11:30, green cat also uses invis to try to kill mouse, but he backs really quickly. He also does a suspicious move of walling around the mine at around 10m to 11m, but mines are visible for a few seconds after placement.
For other mods out there reviewing, this replay also has a false fog click on hero spawn:[spoiler=]There is also a fog click recorded at around 21 to 22seconds into the game:
0:21 |cFFFFC0CBCleobattler|r clicked |cff8080FFCat House
Note, the user does have his selection off his mouse for a short period of time, and a yellow selection circle on the shop, but it stays there and the mouse continues to move. But, there is no click registered on DRM, which makes it likely that it is a false negative.
Need confirmation from another staff member, or someone to test this in-game.[/spoiler]@aRt)Y @Metall-Drago @I3omb
If anyone has already played Tom and Jerry enough times to tell that this is a glitch, feel free to do so. @seacow
-Burn
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child
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
Im supporting banning cleo 1 year for map hack moving to awaiting.
@cleobattler
Yes, I know nothing about this game. I've watched a couple of replays on ff and read the rules, thats literally it. That's why I am not making the final decision, I am only supporting your banning. Ultimately if there are no confirmed dead giveaways it does take a bit of game knowledge to make a decision. The reasons for my support are irrelevant and independent of my knowledge of the game and it's patterns. The things I am basing my decision on are;
A) your internet history which I looked into, and it doesn't look good to say the least
B) Both sides of the argument, and how I would view a similar situation in dota such as a blind dust on someone lothared or with invis rune. I have to say that your argument is about evenly matched if I were to consider it independent of all other factors.
C) Burn's observations and a "bugged" click the likes of which i've not seen
D) Your personal attitude which is also reflected in your gameplay, namely; overconfident, self-righteous and arrogant. When you play anything a sport, video game, card game etc. the most telling sign of someone playing with an unfair advantage is how non-chalant they behave during reckless decisions or decisions that would normally be taken with a level of caution. Like any activity, the way that we practice something carries over into our normal interaction. You behave like a cocky maphacker, and I am speaking from a point of experience and inference here.
Maybe Burn will determine that you are innocent, in which case were a victim of circumstantial evidence working against your cause. Fine, in that case I support that you won't be banned. I wont regret anything I've said here or supporting the banning because I did what research I could based on time and my interest/knowledge around this game and made a decision, and I doubt anyone else would have handled the two person process for days and days. I wouldn't have even bothered and this accusation would have lingered probably for a week or more, just like some of the awaiting threads I have up, were it not for the fact that I simply dont like you and don't trust people who behave similarly to you in general and hope that I don't have to see you spewing self-righteous crap all over the forum daily.
@cleobattler
Yes, I know nothing about this game. I've watched a couple of replays on ff and read the rules, thats literally it. That's why I am not making the final decision, I am only supporting your banning. Ultimately if there are no confirmed dead giveaways it does take a bit of game knowledge to make a decision. The reasons for my support are irrelevant and independent of my knowledge of the game and it's patterns. The things I am basing my decision on are;
A) your internet history which I looked into, and it doesn't look good to say the least
B) Both sides of the argument, and how I would view a similar situation in dota such as a blind dust on someone lothared or with invis rune. I have to say that your argument is about evenly matched if I were to consider it independent of all other factors.
C) Burn's observations and a "bugged" click the likes of which i've not seen
D) Your personal attitude which is also reflected in your gameplay, namely; overconfident, self-righteous and arrogant. When you play anything a sport, video game, card game etc. the most telling sign of someone playing with an unfair advantage is how non-chalant they behave during reckless decisions or decisions that would normally be taken with a level of caution. Like any activity, the way that we practice something carries over into our normal interaction. You behave like a cocky maphacker, and I am speaking from a point of experience and inference here.
Maybe Burn will determine that you are innocent, in which case were a victim of circumstantial evidence working against your cause. Fine, in that case I support that you won't be banned. I wont regret anything I've said here or supporting the banning because I did what research I could based on time and my interest/knowledge around this game and made a decision, and I doubt anyone else would have handled the two person process for days and days. I wouldn't have even bothered and this accusation would have lingered probably for a week or more, just like some of the awaiting threads I have up, were it not for the fact that I simply dont like you and don't trust people who behave similarly to you in general and hope that I don't have to see you spewing self-righteous crap all over the forum daily.
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Cleobattler
- Armored Tree
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:44 pm
Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
@Burn
I disagree with your use of the term "suspicious" to describe my gameplay between 10:00 and 11:00. Arythazin activated the invisibility potion, in an amateur fashion, right in front of my dead mice teammates, hence he was totally in my line of sight when he went invisible. Likewise, he didn't use his cat or my buildings to block the vision of the land mine he subsequently placed. Again, such unprofessional maneuver of invisibility couldn't have fooled a player of my calibre.
On the other hand I agree with you that even if we leave my skill and luck factor out of this discussion, there still isn't enough evidence to conclude that I was maphacking. Though I only played a few Tom and Jerry games with you in the past, I still believe you know the game better than the other mods and is a, if not the only, considerable representative to process this ban request. I've no objections if you're the one to make the final judgment based on my previous posts of detailed explanation and your rich experience in such games, but at the same time I reserve the right to submit an appeal should I, by any disappointing chance, find your judgment biased.
@child
Have you even read and understood any of my previous posts before arriving at such an unrefined and careless decision? Also I'm skeptical of your knowledge and experience in this game and am of the opinion that you're not a suitable candidate for processing this ban request.
I disagree with your use of the term "suspicious" to describe my gameplay between 10:00 and 11:00. Arythazin activated the invisibility potion, in an amateur fashion, right in front of my dead mice teammates, hence he was totally in my line of sight when he went invisible. Likewise, he didn't use his cat or my buildings to block the vision of the land mine he subsequently placed. Again, such unprofessional maneuver of invisibility couldn't have fooled a player of my calibre.
On the other hand I agree with you that even if we leave my skill and luck factor out of this discussion, there still isn't enough evidence to conclude that I was maphacking. Though I only played a few Tom and Jerry games with you in the past, I still believe you know the game better than the other mods and is a, if not the only, considerable representative to process this ban request. I've no objections if you're the one to make the final judgment based on my previous posts of detailed explanation and your rich experience in such games, but at the same time I reserve the right to submit an appeal should I, by any disappointing chance, find your judgment biased.
@child
Have you even read and understood any of my previous posts before arriving at such an unrefined and careless decision? Also I'm skeptical of your knowledge and experience in this game and am of the opinion that you're not a suitable candidate for processing this ban request.
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Burn
- Protector of Nature
- Posts: 2589
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- Location: Clan BTI @ East
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Re: [Tom and Jerry] Cleobattler
I never said those "suspicious" moves were 100%, I merely stated they were suspicious, your movement cloned that of a maphacker, basically dancing with invisible units.
Regardless of whether or not these incidents are suspicious enough or has provided enough evidence for a ban, you have been banned before under another username: o2iroaidnfoajsd
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18167&p=84749&hilit=o2iroaidnfoajsd#p8474
Moving to processed. PM me or make another appeal if you have any questions.
-Burn
Regardless of whether or not these incidents are suspicious enough or has provided enough evidence for a ban, you have been banned before under another username: o2iroaidnfoajsd
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18167&p=84749&hilit=o2iroaidnfoajsd#p8474
Moving to processed. PM me or make another appeal if you have any questions.
-Burn
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