[DOTA] Coldfire786-2@uswest & McFlurry@useast

[athenian26]

Your Warcraft III username: Scavenger
Violator's Warcraft III username: Coldfire786-2 & McFlurry
Game name or map name: [ENT] DotA arem us/ca #36
Stats page link: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=2236729
Rule players violated: Maphack

Time of incidents:
11:02- Mcflurry (queen of pain) pings the location of scavenger (Nightstalker) while NS was in fog.

12:46- QOP is in the top lane pushing slightly out of tower range, which is where the creeps met in the lane, and at the time stated, turns around to place himself inside tower range as Nightstalker approaches him in fog. (note: if you watch closely you will notice that there is no indication that any hero is approaching or reasonably could be approaching. But if you watch with fog on, you will clearly see her backing up into tower range with no justification as to why until a few seconds pass and Nightstalker is no longer in fog and visible to one without a map hack.)

18:50- Nighstalker is hunting the forest with DD to attempt a gank while QOP appears to be neutraling. Again, with no indication that Nightstalker would be attempting to gank naix, QOP immediately blinks into the fog headed directly to Nightstalker who was approaching Naix and foils any element of surprise the gank may have had. (note: granted, qop waited to finish the creeps before blinking into the fog and head directly towards Nighstalker, but qop blinked instantly upon finishing the creep. It logically doesn't make sense unless qop was aware of activities occurring in the fog.

25:00/25:52- Nightstalker enters fog at the top lane around the water. QOP from middle of the map rune directly to cut off the Nightstalker's path as he is running back to base. If you pay attention closely, you will notice that QOP beats Nightstalker to the point at which he was to be cut off and waits for a second or two, then turns in the direction of Nightstalker while Nightstalker was still in fog and not viewable to one without a map hack at the exact point in time their paths now cross. Lucky guess? I dont think so considering you see QOP turn to face the direction Nightstalker was crossing, but it is not until a few seconds after she turns and moves a couple steps in the direction of the Nightstalker that she is able to have vision of him.

30:36- You will notice at this time the scourge team has gathered near their furthest middle tower from their base to initiate a team gank with Mirana's ultie. At the same time, Venomancer is creeping in his jungle (this is what really gets me) with a serpent ward placed approximately right around where you would ward the bottom rune for maximum vision. Pretty smart right? EVEN WITH the site provided with his ward, the entire scourge team was still in fog and under the effect of mirana's ulti before ever leaving fog and entering venos vision. As the entire invisible scourge team approaches the sentinel jungle veno immediately lothars mid creep i.e. out of the three neutrals at that location he already killed one of them and was half way done with a second when he decides to lothars from the entire invisible scourge team approaching him to avoid being ganked and he is the kicker, the serpent ward that he strategically placed to give the impression he was using it to obtain vision as a pre caution to being ganked would have been the perfect excuse for him in this case.... had we all not been invisible to him and in fog when we activated it.

31:10-As our invisible team passes right by the map hacker veno who happened to lothars mid creep to avoid detection... we continue to the middle lane where a battle ensues for which veno stays at the top of the hill waiting for his opportunity to engage intelligently, which never came, goes in and out of lothars a couple times at perfect times to continue avoiding detection by the scourge at times for which were based off of the scourges location in the fog

31:30-Veno returns to the creeps that he had left abruptly for one minute ago to safely finish them off. My guess is that he determined that after he realized the scourges location (again in fog) was not anywhere near close enough to be ganked.

31:42-Veno once again lothars to avoid detection from enemies who were in fog at the time he went invisible, which begs the question. How could he have known?

Any further thoughts: With regards to Mcflurry and his questionable actions stated, one may ask why would someone who map hacks engage in a battle which they would clearly lose? My answer is that, they wouldn't. But you notice that QOP attempts to get close enough to be able to alert his team mates of the location of Nightstalker in order to remove any element of surprise Nightstalker may have had, and in that little bit of time allows the team to formulate a response to the original gank.

Also, I would like to add that originally I scrutinized this replay due to suspicions of McFlurry's questionable actions throughout the game, but it was not until further individual attention was paid to each hero on the sentinel that I detected Venomancer's questionable actions as well.

I did my best to follow the format as well as the step by step guide listed in the Ban Request section of the forums. I believe these incidents speak for themselves... but if you disagree, I would like Coldfire786-2@uswest to answer for them...

[child]

I dont think so man. Coldfire is a skilled player, sentry wards were bought at 20 mins, and most importantly hunter91 is a mod.

[athenian26]

Sentries bought at 20 min, ill stipulate to that. I would like an explanation for my incident posted in all bold... As true as your reply may be, it has no relevance with regard to specific in game incidents listed...

[child]

I watched the replay at the times given. I did not really see anything. Are u sure the times are correct? Veno was lotharing constantly during that time frame while letting his wards creep for him and saw vision of NS at least two times and most likely correctly assumed a gank was coming. Orange, on the other hand, is very suspicious I agree. Its almost nonchalant the way he dodges arrows / avoids ganks. If I were on my ome computer i would check for fogclicks but I'm at work.

[athenian26]

yea, with mcflurry I think it is very questionable and suspicious at the very least. I'm pretty sure the times in the replay are correct. I paused, took notes, & wrote the incident and time. I checked twice, I just would like to know why veno lothars in the middle of creeping after he already finished 1 of the 3 mobs and half way done on the 2nd to dart in the direction of his team. Our entire team was invis via mirana ult, fade time had completed and we had not walked down the little pathway right next to rosh. We had the higher ground. I'm confident that under careful review of the replay, especially the incident listed in bold, that there is no way explaining. The thread about steps on detecting map hackers explains a lot about what to look for and red flags. I believe these incidents are red flags according to the guide written by one of the mods.

[child]

I watched that part again and there is no explanation such as wards or vision etc. he had none. But the talking ceased for a bit, all scourge were mia, scourge top lane was pushed towards your tower. I mean to be honest I would have done the same thing, scout the jungle entrance for signs of a bank. And I would presume under any circumstances that you were either at rosh jungle or exactly where you were. Ur team was riding an emotional high after the last battle, and thus any good player would know that that means incoming gank is very likely. As for the lotharing, I do not see anything suspicious there exactly. Instincts are part of a good player's repertoire, even though they are sometimes misleading.

I stand firm I do not see anything close to clear proof of mh for cold, but mcflurry I am very suspicious.

[athenian26]

well I guess i'll have to be blunt with the accusation in this case. He had vision of the area where our team was, but our whole team was invisible. He didn't have vision if we were invisible. His actions by all of a sudden stopping MID CREEP to lothars out, when there is a whole load of places of the map any one of us could be. He knew our team was invisible coming towards the woods, where he was creeping, and to avoid being ganked he stopped creeping immediately to invisible right before we got there. What would make him think our whole team? or anyone was even near him? Bluntly put, his maphack which allowed detection of invisible units tipped him off which is why his actions which are detailed in the step by step on how to detect a map hacker as red flags are what really makes me think he is hacking.

[EdgeOfChaos]

I'm going to write down events here as non-suspicious or suspicious as I see them ingame.
(All are replay times)

Queen of Pain
------------------
5:06 - Checks rune, finds nothing at bottom rune spot (NS)
7:03 - Dies by bara charge, avoidable if she had seen him coming with MH (NS)
8:06 - Empties bottle, checks rune, finds nothing (#2) (NS)
11:02 - They received on-and-off vision of Night Stalker for a while, the pint was not suspicious (NS)
12:46 - A lot of people wander around to delay their attack while creeping, It could be suspicious, but I won't say one way or another for this.
11:52 - QoP gets ganked by NS in the river area. This was a really avoidable death if she knew he was here (NS)
18:50 - I believe she blinked up there to creep the other spawns. Besides, the blinked pretty far from Nightstalker. (NS)
25:00-25:51 - Night stalker ran a straight path. Pretty easy to predict. (NS)

Venomancer
------------------
30:36 - He leaves a half-dead creep camp when the invis heroes were sneaking up on him. The last vision Venomancer had of them was them going through the bush area near the entrance to the river.
Even worse: After that, he starts going to his team, but when he meets the invis enemies on his way there, he turns around and goes the other direction, away from his team who is pushing.
Then, he goes to rejoin his team and runs away again when they move towards the place where he is.
31:43 - Goes invisible to avoid being seen by Night Stalker who he had no vision of.

I believe that Venomancer is hacking and that Queen of Pain played normally. But I'm not sure on this, since it's a suspicious play MH request. I'd like another moderator to take a look at this before any bans are applied.

@yondaime @agreements

[athenian26]

I happen to agree with your opinion fully. Its ironic how I started to look into the suspicious game play of QOP which turned out to be questionable, but found out veno appeared to be hacking imo, and as it turns out I'm not the only one. Thanks for your time. Awaiting more opinions. I think can only be a good thing.

[coldfire786]

All I gotta say is Hunter was feeding on this game

[athenian26]

I just would like to know why veno lothars in the middle of creeping after he already finished 1 of the 3 mobs and half way done on the 2nd to dart in the direction of his team. Our entire team was invis via mirana ult, fade time had completed and we had not walked down the little pathway right next to rosh.

[athenian26]

(25:50 / All) coldfire786-2: kid stop hacking\
(26:06 / All) coldfire786-2: stop hacking mofo
(32:40 / All) coldfire786-2: oh
(32:41 / All) coldfire786-2: oh
(32:44 / All) coldfire786-2: bitch
(32:46 / All) coldfire786-2: hacker
(32:47 / All) coldfire786-2: die
(36:01 / Allied) coldfire786-2: that hacker
(37:35 / Allied) coldfire786-2: mother fuker hacker
(45:06 / All) coldfire786-2: ur hacker
(45:08 / All) coldfire786-2: so bad

[child]

All I gotta say is Hunter was feeding on this game

U might want to address this seriously. I explained how an experienced played could have done what you did without map hack just by instinct or feelings, but after hearing edge say that I have a lot of doubts.

Want to explain in detail ur thought process?

If u werent mhing u need to do this or else I guess it is possible you could be banned based on strong suspicion.

[coldfire786]

Bro go watch some replays of high Elo players
people like u with not even 1kd ratio and 900 elos are just jealous and admin know wat they doing. So I won't reply anymore on this

[athenian26]

I'm going to write down events here as non-suspicious or suspicious as I see them ingame.
(All are replay times)

Queen of Pain
------------------
5:06 - Checks rune, finds nothing at bottom rune spot (NS)
7:03 - Dies by bara charge, avoidable if she had seen him coming with MH (NS)
8:06 - Empties bottle, checks rune, finds nothing (#2) (NS)
11:02 - They received on-and-off vision of Night Stalker for a while, the pint was not suspicious (NS)
12:46 - A lot of people wander around to delay their attack while creeping, It could be suspicious, but I won't say one way or another for this.
11:52 - QoP gets ganked by NS in the river area. This was a really avoidable death if she knew he was here (NS)
18:50 - I believe she blinked up there to creep the other spawns. Besides, the blinked pretty far from Nightstalker. (NS)
25:00-25:51 - Night stalker ran a straight path. Pretty easy to predict. (NS)

Venomancer
------------------
30:36 - He leaves a half-dead creep camp when the invis heroes were sneaking up on him. The last vision Venomancer had of them was them going through the bush area near the entrance to the river.
Even worse: After that, he starts going to his team, but when he meets the invis enemies on his way there, he turns around and goes the other direction, away from his team who is pushing.
Then, he goes to rejoin his team and runs away again when they move towards the place where he is.
31:43 - Goes invisible to avoid being seen by Night Stalker who he had no vision of.

I believe that Venomancer is hacking and that Queen of Pain played normally. But I'm not sure on this, since it's a suspicious play MH request. I'd like another moderator to take a look at this before any bans are applied.

@yondaime @agreements

Yea ok. Wheatever bro. Thats one. One more who agrees with him and your ass is grass, hacker.