Top players list

[Chantry]

His poll is bias and bullshit, means nothing. Split is literally a retarded and pointless move. Kid is just mad that he is ranked 150th and only 1.9k and he plays ap solo. He thinks he would be top of ap leaderboard which wont happen. All of the first pagers unlike yourself fangorn will make sure you keep your shitty 150th overall spot and we keep our top 10 -_- no one think yours bette cause you play ap, like i said play me. The split is dumb and everyones said so, just get over it.

P.s. spade is fully right. The modes don't matter to rank, stackers stack mode is irrelvant

Edit: fangorn is 2k lul thinks he will betop of non em board -_- hahahaha ranked 68th overall

[QTriNitY]

@Chantry
@Fangorn

His poll is bias and bullshit, means nothing. Split is literally a retarded and pointless move. Kid is just mad that he is ranked 150th and only 1.9k and he plays ap solo. He thinks he would be top of ap leaderboard which wont happen. All of the first pagers unlike yourself fangorn will make sure you keep your shitty 150th overall spot and we keep our top 10 -_- no one think yours bette cause you play ap, like i said play me. The split is dumb and everyones said so, just get over it.

P.s. spade is fully right. The modes don't matter to rank, stackers stack mode is irrelvant

Edit: fangorn is 2k lul thinks he will betop of non em board -_- hahahaha ranked 68th overall

To be fair to Fangorn, I have played with and against him. So long as his allies hold their lanes (Non EM games), he is sure a deadly carry.

His average CS is one of the above carry player, thus instead of going personal here, get him on a match and be sure to PM me about the arrangement so that I can pool decent support players to help him against his opponents (Your Team).

5 Ex-BGN players that I can draft for a Captain's Mode
Fangorn
Vegeta(KSW)
Temperament
FighterZhaoyun (Jacksentan)
Equilibrium-

[Chantry]

Ill play. I get me plus four then? I'm down to play tn

Edit: i can pick my own team

[QTriNitY]

LOL, forget about the arrangement. Bunch of MHers.
Not interested to see a match where indecent gamers come to have a fair fight.

Edited. Adding Admin link - viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10148&p=54156#p54156

[spoiler=](11:15:12) Chantry: I have more elo than hiim
(11:15:16) QTriNitY: nah
(11:15:27) QTriNitY: its non em games
(11:15:31) Chantry: I'm 2.3k??
(11:15:36) QTriNitY: different game play
(11:15:47) Chantry: Man i'm in clan high. We ih cm all the time
(11:15:58) QTriNitY: lol
(11:16:10) Chantry: What?
(11:16:24) QTriNitY: you are a mher, remember this
(11:16:35) Chantry: I was
(11:16:40) QTriNitY: i seen your replays, just lazy to ban you[/spoiler]

[Chantry]

Gg

[ipwnipwn]

girls chill, ent gonna have seperate statslists or no?

[ackjilmo]

@chantry (and possibly black spade)

This might be a waste of my time to reply to you. But here goes:

You contradict yourself. If stats don't matter (i.e. if we believe they are not or never will be a significant measure of player skill), then why have a "top players" list in the first place? Also, why are you so proud of your spot in the top 10 and belittle Fangorn for being 68th place when you claim that most of the top players got their spots by stacking? Hmm..

The truth is that game mode, stacking/friends, hero picks, sniping/ghosting, and maybe more factors can skew stats in the current system, making them not a great indicator of player skill, but rather just a mediocre indicator.

You are correct that splitting lists by game mode alone won't make stats a great indicator of player skill. Of course the other problems remain to be solved. But, splitting the lists by game mode is a step in the right direction.

Essentially, it comes down to two choices: If we the ENT community believe that stats will never be a good indicator of player skill, then we should just eliminate stats/stat tracking altogether. On the other hand, if we believe that stats can someday be a good/accurate indicator of player skill, then we should work on solving all the problems eventually.

P.S. Offtopic, but like QTrinity, I have also played with and against Fangorn. He is a great player AND I've never seen him stack (unlike some "top 10" players).

[EdgeOfChaos]

Actually all this will do is throw off the top players even more, because what will happen when a top player plays half EM and half non-EM games? (People do do this btw). I guess what you're suggesting is that it'll make two separate stat pages for them with lower ELO than the main. And if that person is semi-inactive as flowersnow is, you'll be taking him off the top 10 board for no reason other than which modes he played (And please don't say flowersnow doesn't deserve top 10 because he plays EM)

No this is not a step in the right direction. This will just make everything worse.

[Chantry]

@ackjilmo if you want better rankings go ask for tar not a game split b

[Aghnaar]

I have a proposal too. Different stats for players that think they are pro for playing ap non em and all they do is pick an op character like Bat, go mid and win. Where's the freaking skill on that? Ain't people bored of playing the same shit every game? It's not the em that makes dota easy, it's the fact that everyone is afraid to play a normal hero in pubs. If i have less elo for example from a guy that is used to play only mid, and i request for mid, probably I will get flamed, although I'm positive I can play almost any hero well, and rarely I lose mid when I take it. So, because I am bored to play the flame war with guys like that, I play support most of the time, because everyone picks a carry, so I don't want to lose the game in twenty min. I have seen Spade for example playing support many times, and he is great on it. But most of the other 'high' ranked players never give it a try. They just want quick elo, em or not. So, imo, separation on stats won't mean shit.

[ackjilmo]

Actually all this will do is throw off the top players even more, because what will happen when a top player plays half EM and half non-EM games? (People do do this btw). I guess what you're suggesting is that it'll make two separate stat pages for them with lower ELO than the main. And if that person is semi-inactive as flowersnow is, you'll be taking him off the top 10 board for no reason other than which modes he played (And please don't say flowersnow doesn't deserve top 10 because he plays EM)

No this is not a step in the right direction. This will just make everything worse.

I don't know what we will do with the current stats. Since old games are deleted (afaik), we do not know how much elo was gained/lost separately through em and non-em games. It might be harsh to simply reset all stats, so we will probably want to come up with a compromise of sorts.

If flowersnow played mostly em, then he will probably be near the top of the em board, but maybe not top 10 on the non-em board. But so what? There's more to life than being recognized as the "best" in dota in a relatively unknown community like ent.

Should we put professional players who are better than flowersnow on the top 10 for both boards even though they are completely inactive? Kinda like an honorary degree? Please.

@ackjilmo if you want better rankings go ask for tar not a game split b

I don't understand your gibberish. What does "tar" and "game split b" mean?

I also don't think you read and understood anything in my last post. Reply to me only when you do.

I have a proposal too. Different stats for players that think they are pro for playing ap non em and all they do is pick an op character like Bat, go mid and win. Where's the freaking skill on that? Ain't people bored of playing the same shit every game? It's not the em that makes dota easy, it's the fact that everyone is afraid to play a normal hero in pubs. If i have less elo for example from a guy that is used to play only mid, and i request for mid, probably I will get flamed, although I'm positive I can play almost any hero well, and rarely I lose mid when I take it. So, because I am bored to play the flame war with guys like that, I play support most of the time, because everyone picks a carry, so I don't want to lose the game in twenty min. I have seen Spade for example playing support many times, and he is great on it. But most of the other 'high' ranked players never give it a try. They just want quick elo, em or not. So, imo, separation on stats won't mean shit.

I never said that em is easier than standard dota. Maybe somebody else did in this thread, but I don't agree with them.

I only said that em and non-em games play differently (if you read one of my earlier posts you will see some differences I pointed out).

Also, I agree that hero picks can skew stats (in fact I pointed this out in my previous post). So you are right that separating the stats between em and non-em modes won't mean shit by itself. It won't making the crappy current stat system much better. In order to make stats meaningful, we must eventually accompany it with solutions for the other problems (i.e. we need to account for stacking, sniping/ghosting/smurfing, hero picks, etc.).

[ipwnipwn]

Ppl r allowed to play the hero they want, for some reason its ap
And bat in ap mode isnt as gay as he is in em, em u can dive tower and dont die

[BlackSpade]

@chantry (and possibly black spade)

This might be a waste of my time to reply to you. But here goes:

You contradict yourself. If stats don't matter (i.e. if we believe they are not or never will be a significant measure of player skill), then why have a "top players" list in the first place? Also, why are you so proud of your spot in the top 10 and belittle Fangorn for being 68th place when you claim that most of the top players got their spots by stacking? Hmm..

The truth is that game mode, stacking/friends, hero picks, sniping/ghosting, and maybe more factors can skew stats in the current system, making them not a great indicator of player skill, but rather just a mediocre indicator.

You are correct that splitting lists by game mode alone won't make stats a great indicator of player skill. Of course the other problems remain to be solved. But, splitting the lists by game mode is a step in the right direction.

Essentially, it comes down to two choices: If we the ENT community believe that stats will never be a good indicator of player skill, then we should just eliminate stats/stat tracking altogether. On the other hand, if we believe that stats can someday be a good/accurate indicator of player skill, then we should work on solving all the problems eventually.

P.S. Offtopic, but like QTrinity, I have also played with and against Fangorn. He is a great player AND I've never seen him stack (unlike some "top 10" players).

Ok you're kind of contradicting your self to some degree, saying that stats isn't good indicator of player skill but it leads to right direction?? Honestly all the comments i made are from my experience and opinion so I am nor wrong or right but the way i see it and how it is, is this! no matter how much you try, in open public games and stats don't really mix when it comes to indicating players skill! Only if you have non-open public games that are played with in the groups of people who are vouched or permitted to play the games, where actual strats/team work are applied to the games have any meaning to indicate how well person plays or not and not judge player based on open public game where its basically 1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1 instead of actual team concept where its 5 (as team) vs 5(as team). And also most of the games i prefer to play is vs stacked team where its 3+ high elo vs me and +4 random pubbers (when i play solo que) and i had some player with bad stats but played very well and some of those players are willing to play the game properly and i probably rank them pretty decent as a player and some of these players who are below 1k elo do impress me time to time (it could be because i don't really care and dont expect much out of them) but compare to some players who have high elo/stats and i seen some pretty bad players with high elo who blames team mates for no good reason when they had 0 impact to the game while team is losing or w/e .... so what does this all mean?? basically nothing really but it sure doesn't say much about player skill when it comes to stats!!

[Fangorn]

If someone want to challenge, you should play ap euro, I don't play -em-games.

I can only say that I agree with ackjilmo, everyone should first carefully read his comments, then try to understand what he is acutally saying. It seems no one is even reading anymore

qtrinity has posted a solid proof of a maphacker, chantry. Everyone should notice that maphack-leap when chasing a ww trax.

blackspade, you should try to use period and paragraphs if possible, I gave up on the 4th line

[QTriNitY]

Yes, I deemed that Chantry is map hacking in the research game i had gone through.

But no bans will be issued for several reasons.

No game info or game link will be released in public.

=======================================================================

Orange vs LGD.cn - Game 5 (D2SL - 3rd Decider) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... shitiqT7bg

Serious DotA players game on Non-EM because this put them through the following trials when gold earned per second = 1 and lost of farm when awaiting respawn.

1. Creeping and denying. (Sitting around or auto creeping can't buy you basic items compared to EM)

2. Ability to farm and taking opportunities to last hit towers.
- Every second counts. The role of the carry is to farm and try not to engage in ganks and risk dying during early and mid game. Get the basic items up and move on to luxury and situational items.

- E.g. Spectre Phase boots to provide for better creeping, Janggo for basic survivability, Diffusal, Vitality booster
With these and 4 levels in Desolate + Despersion, he is ready for a team push
- Split push and take towers while allied supports and gankers create harassment to enemy team.
This is where your precious gold comes from.

3. Choice of items in face of limited resources. After finishing the basic items, look at opponent items and skills.
- Guinsoo or disablers - BKB (Not for Enigma's Black Hole obviously)
- Evasion (Enemy has a FV or PA) or Blindness (Enemy has a Nightstalker or Troll) - MKB
- Surviving Nukes where BKB is not appropriate e.g. Phantom Lancer and Naga Siren - Boost your HP with Heart.
- "Perm Bash" from enemy heroes - Butterfly

4. Killing skills in clashes. Ability to handle chaotic situations when there are 10 heroes in the killing Zone.
- Shadow Fiend, raze accuracy
- Faceless Void, Proper timing and location of Chrono
- Priority of Target. (E.g. Take down Enigma or Tidehunter for obvious reasons)
- Sense (After Enigma or Tidehunter has activated their ultis, do not focus them anymore, take down the enemy Carry) <- Seen in many pub games where all allied players chased down an Ulti-less Tidehunter. Made me laugh.

5. Item Purchase or saving for buy backs.
- Certain heroes have the ability to rejoin a fight after a buy back without the use of Boots of Travel. E.g. Spectre. All competitive league matches with Spectre as Main Carry always save gold for buy backs and Haunt into Clashes they were previously killed in.
- Allied KotL. Save for buy backs and he will relocate you to rejoin the Clash (If your Kotl isn't dead by then)

These are the raw skills that players in Non EM games must adapt. Support players will vacate lanes and 'Stick' as 4 while the Carry farms in Mid till End game.
Support heroes will purchase Arcane boots (For Intel), get Meka and Urns, place observer wards at major junctions to help one another and keep their Carry Safe.
Create space for Carry to farm as he needs his items fast.

As a Carry - If a Carry goes around killing instead of creeping, his gold per minute will fall dramatically and this spells the end of the 'Killer' as Carries are often called in late game.

E.g. Naga Siren without Radiance or Diffusal after 20 minutes. What a Joke!