Ban Antistuck.

[nabo.]

And please dont tell me that this will lead to mass brqs wave - all who play 1100 are all definately know game and rules and use AS consciously, only because it allowed.

...Banning it will create huge amount of ban requests and make people angry, also will require a lot of moderators time, but it is not worth it.

Contradiction between the two statements. Also, our recent and past (during "gentlemen agreement") AS usage scan result has clearly shown that there are enough people using AS on ent31. Anyway, whether our staff can handle these requests during the short term is something we will decide. Just like when any other new rule was implemented, there will be more than usual number of violators including those who are not aware of new rule implementation during the short-run. But, It is all a part of the process. Rules are implemented not only for short-run, but also for the long-run of this community. It can be worth to moderate it and stop its abuse. There are pros and cons that will follow with either polls.

Because using AS for catch ally leaks on ent18 almost have no impact on the gameplay, and even help to make game more balanced mostly..... Yes AS is a glitch but most players who use ent18 agree that it is not make disbalance there. ...

AS has no impact? If it had no impact, we would not need to discuss about this matter and our staff would just make a decision. If you think AS to be a game tool, there will be no problem using it. However, if you think it is a glitch, answer is simple: do not exploit it.

Ent31 positioning as higher skilled bot where is no place such disbalance elements as cross, double build, aura share, merc, dark green and as, and less player base there, so it could be regulated without any problems.

So, just because ent31 has higher quality players does not mean it does not require as much moderation as ent18. If AS should be bannable because it is a "glitch" or an "exploit " or one of your "disbalance elements"...then more the reason to moderate it on both ent18 and ent31, not just ent31.

Players on ent35 can abuse AS for changing creeps movement when they build in middle and it allow them to divide own creep wave into two parts and kill it separately.

You only think this because you do not see many mid building players on ent18. Rule applies for them also though. The fact that AS can be used to disturb sending units movement, not just to split creeps at corners, remains anyway.

[supersexyy]

Satan's suggestion is to ban anti stick on the 1100+ bot.
Why has his suggestion been changed into something he didn't suggest?
Why is there a poll in his thread for something he didn't suggest?
A poll should be executed for his suggestion only - if you feel anti stuck should be banned on all other bots a seperate poll should be initiated.

If you have your own suggestion - post your own thread!

[nabo.]

Already explained why the poll was added. If OP feels that our discussion and poll are irrelvant to his initial suggestion, he can delete the poll himself.

I have yet to get much response why a glitch should not be allowed on one bot, but allowed on another? Why should we make an exception when we genrally ban all other types of glitches and exploits?

If none can give a good answer and seeing how the poll is going, the suggestion will likely get denied either way.

[I_kill_satan]

Contradiction between the two statements. Also, our recent and past (during "gentlemen agreement") AS usage scan result has clearly shown that there are enough people using AS on ent31.

Maybe i told it not fully clear - no contradiction there, first statement is about ent31, 2nd is about ent18.

When we had "agreement" on ent 31 i cant remember that someone used AS but now they do, cuz "it is allowed".

So, just because ent31 has higher quality players does not mean it does not require as much moderation as ent18. If AS should be bannable because it is a "glitch" or an "exploit " or one of your "disbalance elements"...then more the reason to moderate it on both ent18 and ent31, not just ent31.

AS on ent 18 is not create a problems; huge brqs wave will follow; banning it just make solo building much harder.
AS on ent31 create a problems; almost no brqs will follow.

I have yet to get much response why a glitch should not be allowed on one bot, but allowed on another? Why should we make an exception when we genrally ban all other types of glitches and exploits?If none can give a good answer and seeing how the poll is going, the suggestion will likely get denied either way.

Playing on this bots are just like playing two completely different games.

If u ban AS on ent18, solo build will mean "gg" from start there vs enemy who have clue how to cross correctly.
If u not ban AS on ent31, this could make this bot is another pub place. So next step, allow dark green and merc there, and cross also

If u want to see people's opinion, would u like to change this poll to smth like that please:

"Would u like to:
1. Ban AS on ent18 and ent31;
2. Ban AS on ent31only;
3. No ban AS".

[aRt)Y]

The point is, which most of you simply wont acknowledge, is that AS is categorized as glitch by the administration's definition. We do not define it as 'A' for bot x and as definition 'B' on bot y.

Furthermore, whether antistuck has any impact on the game or not, doesn't matter. It's just like maphack - it can have little impact or a major one - yet, it's ban-able at any time.

This suggestion, and how the poll was phrased (the way I did it), has the goal to find a definition of anti-stuck. If the majority decides it is a glitch, then it will banned bots-wide. If the majority decides it is a strategy, then we can decide on which bots it should be allowed.

Anyway, my point of view is that since anti-stuck was meant to actually antistuck stuck units, it was not meant to gain an advantage, regardless if it is neglected by all 8 players using it.

[SLSGuennter]

@i_kill_satan it seems like u still dont get it ... if we decide, this antistuck-abuse is glitch-using, then we MUST ban it on all bots, since ent bans all ways of glitch-using.
if we decide, AS is NOT a glitch, THEN we can talk about banning it on several bots (but it most likely wont happen then)

[supersexyy]

That's besides the point. It can be banned for other reasons other than glitch abuse. In a similar way that building on dark green is banned, anti stuck function can be banned.

Whether you want to redefine anti stuck as glitch abuse is a separate matter to this suggestion

[eldryan]

It is stupid to put the same rules in two different game types. It's like having the same "glitch" uses banned in dota LoD and dota, just because abilities are the same. Ent35 and ent18 are completely different playstyles, and of course need different rules.

eg. merc, as abuse, mode choices

@i_kill_satan Also I noticed this same discrepancy in rules when playing 1100+ when it was first created, and just used it for trolling hence this time. Cross build is literally the exact same thing as using anti-stuck... why ban building behind dark green if you allow anti stuck... the difference is LIHL has good consistency in it's rules, and is serious. This bot is still easy to abuse within the rules for it.

Either have a consistent rule set for each bot, or have the same rule set for each bot (in which case 1100+ is rather pointless except in guaranteeing a slightly higher average) but don't half-ass a rule set and allow anyone who wants to abuse the power to ruin those who are playing without abuse.

[nabo.]

Dont compare dota and lod vs ent18 and ent31. Lod is a whole diff map compared to dota whereas ent18 and 31 is the same dam map. Abilities and mechanics are not the same either. Lol.

U talk about consistency, good. So, based on ur definition of AS, vote that AS is a glitch or a gametool and depending on poll result, we can decide whether it should be banned on all bots or not. Ezpz

Is the dark green rule so hard to understand? It just mainly means "dont build too close from each other".

[eldryan]

It is a glitch in 1100+ and in ent35 where the unit pathing is such that this tool becomes unapplicable in most circumstances.

dota and lod are the same map, same unit pathing, same abilities, just different mode. the exact same as this discussion....

[nabo.]

Offtopic:

Spoiler!

dota and lod are the same map, same unit pathing, same abilities, just different mode. the exact same as this discussion....

Same map = no. Diff version, diff map maker, diff layout, diff pathing, diff mechanics, diff heroes, certain diff skills.... Go play both and you shall see.

[F-Train]

dota and lod are the same map, same unit pathing, same abilities, just different mode. the exact same as this discussion....

No they are not.

[eldryan]

dota and lod are the same map, same unit pathing, same abilities, just different mode. the exact same as this discussion....

No they are not.

Yes, they are. That is why it's called "dota" LoD. To say dota is only 1 map is just stupid, and to pretend you change the map rules with each new release/version is equally qualifying as "dumb". The unit pathing and abilities change only negligibly during new releases, and only only negligibly in this discussion. Please use your brain before making more uninformative redundant comments (eg. "no, it's not.")

Thanks

[I_kill_satan]

Cross build is literally the exact same thing as using anti-stuck... why ban building behind dark green if you allow anti stuck...

Ye thats it.

Dont compare dota and lod vs ent18 and ent31.

ent18 and ent31 are completely different games with completely different rules, allowed builders, placement of builders, and strategies. It is not correct to ask ent18 public's opinion what rules they want on ent31, and vice versa. Can u play some games with me for i could prove my statements.

As for now, people voted "no" because they dont want to change something on ent18 but they still want ban AS on ent31.

Yes technically AS is a glitch but banning it will create a lot of problems for ent18 users and also for u as moderator team. But allowing it will create in ent31 another glitch users paradise.

[aRt)Y]

Well, formulate your poll question and answers, I will collect them and we can start a new poll (or more) you guys consider to be more precise for the situation.