LTD rules - draw

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LTD rules - draw

Postby Spongepig » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:23 pm

We've all been there; you start a fresh game of LTD with reasonable teams only to see one of your teammates either unwillingly disconnect or plain ragequit. What do you do? Call for a draw, of course. Being x versus 4 (where x = 1 , 2 or 3) is far from fun nor fair. But the opponents of yours will most likely deny you a draw. They want to claim this easy ELO they've just been served on a gold plate by the leaver.

The rules of LTD @ENT states no flaw against denying a draw. I see this as a problem. Most games will be decided once one are less players on one side than the other.

So what is the solution? I suggest ENT should implement a rule for omitting a draw when the teams have become uneven at such an early stage in the game, a defeat is imminent for the endangered team.

The rule itself sounds fair and appealing, but it is not applicable in all situations and needs further definition in order to avoid abuse.

By "early stage" i refer to level 1-3. Let's go through each of these levels and pretend there's a leaver on one side:

Pre-level 1 (before the levels start):
  • If you're down to x versus 4 before level 1 starts, no effect has been made on one side to the other. Omitting a draw in this situation should be bannable.

Level 1 and until level 2 starts:
  • If neither of the sides sent creeps to interfere with the opposing team and a player still decides to leave, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If one side sent creeps and caused a leak from the leaving player, whose leak was then caught by his fellow players, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If the send from opposing team causes a leak which could not be prevented by any players (creeps reach the king) and a player of the deferred team then decides to leave, omitting a draw should not be bannable.


Level 2 and until level 3 starts:
  • If a player leaves with no send from opposing side being made for this level, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If the opposing team sends for level 2 which causes a leak that makes the leaving player leak but the leak is caught by his fellow players, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If the send from opposing team causes a leak which could not be prevented by any players (creeps reach the king) and a player of the deferred team then decides to leave, omitting a draw should not be bannable.


Level 3:
  • If no send has been made from the opposing team and a player still decides to leave, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If the send from opposing team leads to a leak from the leaving player which is then caught by his fellow players, omitting a draw should be bannable.
  • If the send from opposing team causes a leak which could not be prevented by any players (creeps reach the king) and a player of the deferred team then decides to leave, omitting a draw should not be bannable.

The rule is built up on the idea of causality; if the leaving player decides to leave because of team 2's overwhelming send, the leaving player obviously fears a loss could be imminent. In these situations where team 2's send is so good it could lead to a victory at the present level or cause team 1 to spend alot of heals (being 4v4 untill all players have leaked), it would be unfair to withdraw the victory from team 2. On the other hand; if there is no causality between the leaving player and the entirety (i.e. a leaks can be caught; one can always make a comeback) of the game, a draw should be made.

If you managed to implement the rule against abusing Altar Glitch for 3.5, and all players - both common and uncommon - now follow this new rule due to simple server announcements, then you could also manage to implement the easy rule of encouraging a draw. Players outside the community would not be aware of the specific details of the draw rule, and therefore it would be in simple "if one are x versus 4 before level 4 starts, omitting a draw is bannable". This simple interpretation of the rule will lead to many players leaving when they leak (/"fearing a loss is imminent"), so the remains of the team then can call for a draw and by that avoid losing any ELO. If we want to counter such bad sportmanship, one must also intensify the punishment for leaving. In this way players rather gain an incentive to stay until the game is finished.

I want to end this post with an invitation to fair play. Myself, i will always check the circumstances of the game and consider if i should draw or not if the teams are uneven. This goes for any level of the game. The idea is that if i draw for my opponents when they face an uneven game being x versus 4, they will draw for me in similar situations in the future. This is what a community is all about; knowing eachother, knowing the depth of the game and be able to rely on eachother's goodwill. If i help you now, i'll expect you to help me tomorrow. If you help me now, i will help you tomorrow. Let the sportmanship be like this. Fair play for the win.

If you have any questions, suggestions or comments regarding the draw rule, then please reply here.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby aRt)Y » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:51 pm

tl;dr; Doesn't the autoban suggestion for LTD solve this whole draw/leavers issue?
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Spongepig » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:24 pm

That solves the issue for leaving, i guess, but if i'm not mistaken that suggestion says nothing about reservation of ELO. Being 3v4 or 2v4 in LTD is nearly equal to a loss. Fine, you can leave at 3v4 without being banned, but you will still lose the ELO, right? This suggestion is about forcing players to draw when there's a leaver at such an early stage in the game, that the match is already settled due to unbalanced teams. In this situation, it would be good with a force draw-rule to preserve any ELO that might have been lost due to uneven teams.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby nabo. » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:29 pm

We wont do anything about elo.

But, perhaps making the draw requirement lower during lvl1-2 is reasonable.


! Draw system consists of players voting, therefore, forcing votes make no sense.

We could autodraw with the bot, but due to warrior sends at lvl 1 or ppl leaking on lvl 3...abuse cases will be many, so this suggestion will not happen.
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Spongepig » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:10 pm

Well, if you will not implement a rule for draw, the least thing you can do is encourage to draw through server announcements. A lot of LTD players need schooling in fair play.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby nabo. » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:35 pm

@spongeping

Sportsmanship can be questionable. But, just making an announcement saying "you should draw unfair games" or something along the line wouldnt really impact much.

Do you play ent31?

There are more lihl players on ent31 and they are a lot more likely to draw unfair games compared to general players on ent18.
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Spongepig » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:36 pm

ent31 being the 1100+ bot? I reckon those at ent31 are fair players. I play in that bot sometimes but it has a rather high skill applied to it. I doubt i'll be over 1100 at all times.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby supersexyy » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:50 pm

Team 1 sends warrs, team 2 leaks 100 spawns. It's not uncommon for a player to leave at this point. What is your solution? A draw would be grossly unfair.
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby SLSGuennter » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:31 pm

well. i know a lot of people which would always build minimal 1 and/or 2 and if they get send and fail, they would just go to leave/pp ... imo thats one of the problems on 1100+ bot. leavers/dc'ers dont get reported often enough (kinda 0 times) though the autoban wont kick in.
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Spongepig » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:37 pm

supersexyy wrote:Team 1 sends warrs, team 2 leaks 100 spawns. It's not uncommon for a player to leave at this point. What is your solution? A draw would be grossly unfair.


As listed in the topic starter:
If the send from opposing team causes a leak which could not be prevented by any players (creeps reach the king) and a player of the deferred team then decides to leave, omitting a draw should not be bannable.

This is the part where causality hits in. If a player leaves due an action from the opposite team, one should not draw. At this point influence has been made from one side to the other and this influence can decide the outcome of the match. Therefore a force draw in a situation like you mention, would indeed be unfair.

The LTD admin's have refused to implement any kind of draw rule, nor do they wish to highlight the importance of fair play. Out of this i understand that it is up to ourselves to make the game as fair as possible.

I've made a list of players who denied a draw being 4v3 on level 3 or earlier, which i can post at the LTD forum and keep up to date.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby supersexyy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:00 pm

That rules out autodraw and instead forces people to type !draw.
In that case I am highly against this suggestion.
Games will just be constantly drawn and everyone will get reported.
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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Mercy » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:06 pm

I think that this isn't a particularly good idea. Like sexxy said, many people will be reported and/or banned due to not drawing.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Hutzu » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:14 pm

My concerns:
1) I got crappy towers -> pull-plug/leave
2) My team is full of noobs or they at least build like them -> same
3) In your suggestion, Player A leaks, player B (his mate) catches them, but a draw should be enforced now (not voting for it = bannable). I don't agree. Player A is screwed and left. It shouldn't matter whether the leak was caught by a mate or king.
4) What about straight 5 sends? I regularly ask for straight 5, when I see the opponent team killing round 1-3 rather slowly. Let's say my teammate leaks on 3 and disconnects. We would have screwed them hard on 5, if he were still in the game. My team seemed to have the short end of the stick, but actually had the upper hand as lvl 5 leak of the opponents would have been far greater.

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby Dong » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:44 pm

Well imo, i think the draw suggestion would actually encourage people to leave more often.
so i am more a fan of increasing the punishment for those who leave. so we can maybe hope less people leaving. :)
i think nabo. made a suggestion of such at some point, can't remember right now :)

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Re: LTD rules - draw

Postby SLSGuennter » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:38 pm

Dong wrote:Well imo, i think the draw suggestion would actually encourage people to leave more often.
so i am more a fan of increasing the punishment for those who leave. so we can maybe hope less people leaving. :)


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