Retroactive ban application @ BSHIPS

[tom_b]

Hi,

Some of my friends have recently banned for "abusing" the -zoom normal function. Whilst I recall discussing within the BSHIPS rules thread that it should be rightfully be a bannable offence to bait players into typing -zoom normal to desync, It was never fully articulated as to whether or not typing it yourself constituted glitch abuse.

Actually, prior to the 30th of June, the accepted "rules" on Ents WIKI page simply stated that "* Telling players to type ''-zoom normal'' to cause a desync." was a prohibited action. This wiki page has since been amended to read "Telling players to type ''-zoom normal'' to cause a desync or any usage of it by yourself".

I find it surprisingly unjust and unfair that admins have been banning people in an apparent retroactive application of this hitherto unannounced rule change. For example, one of my friends yeyue has been banned for typing -zoom normal himself (3 seconds before the game ended I might add) in this game, on the 29th of July http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 803610.w3g . Other friends of mine have been banned in a similar manner.

How is it fair for people to be banned for a change in rules that admins have decided on a whim? What constitutes "abusing the glitch? I know you don't want people to abuse the ability to leave a game avoiding autoban, but this hasn't been clearly explained and I think it's unfair that the only place people were made aware of this change was in the forum (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33820). Wouldn't the more appropriate place to announce a change be within the rules/drama thread currently open in suggestions? It's not like most people log in to the forums to check for updates to the rules before playing, and the new in game messages made no mention of the amendment to the rules, which I remind you had previously simply stated only "Telling players to type ''-zoom normal'' to cause a desync" was a bannable offence.


For reference;
BSHIPS rules thread: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=31726
WIKI edit log: http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?title=EntG ... &oldid=342

[BouncingHitman]

Hi, as you know, getting players to type "-zoom normal" is unacceptable, as the one typing this string is most likely to get disconnected. This is an unfair advantage over them and it is abusing a glitch within the map. It should be fairly obvious that having another player unknowingly disconnect themselves in order to gain an unfair advantage should be ban able. As to those being banned for typing "-zoom normal", it is most likely that they are abusing the "command" in order to disconnect and prevent themselves from receiving a ban or stat reduction as a result from leaving.

[tom_b]

Ok, so would you mind explaining to me how it is considered fair that people have been banned for a change in rules made without announcement? Or how people were banned before rule changes were even made live? Your own rule website at the time of offences didn't state that typing -zoom normal without baiting was bannable, how is it fair that suddenly because admins change their minds they can go and ban people for things that were considered legal previously? If you read the rule thread nowhere does it mention explicitly that typing -zoom normal for ones own sake be considered glitch abuse.

I'd also like to add on a somewhat unrelated note that I personally feel the amount of bans being handed out recently in battleships are ridiculous as there are already so few active players, particularly without people connecting from garena. Admins are taking far too proactive a rule trying to enforce "rules", why don't you leave it to players to report unfair play?

[Stealer]

zoom normal may have been written into the rules recently but it was acted upon before it was 'officially' a rule.
Its very clearly covered by ent general rules.

yeyue was unbanned (very generously considering his history) on the condition that he never used the command or a derivative of it, and he used it.

It was never fully articulated as to whether or not typing it yourself constituted glitch abuse.

Typing it may (probably, almost guaranteed) result in a ban.

How is it fair for people to be banned for a change in rules that admins have decided on a whim?

tbh the vast majority of bans over its usage have been for baiting or dodging autobanx I not quite sure why you think its unreasonable to ban for that.
imo yeyue case is the only one that wasn't in strict compliance with the rules.

viewtopic.php?p=146113#p146113 - baiting.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33781 - dodging autobanx (edit2: check with drm to see the actions)
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33820 - baiting
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33850 - baiting
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33666 - baiting
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33604 - baiting
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=33589 - baiting (5 day)

[EdgeOfChaos]

Not every single form of game ruining needs to be enumerated. If typing a string causes a disconnection, getting new players to type this will result in a ban for ruining their gaming experience maliciously. This should be a no-brainer. If you want to argue why causing players to crash maliciously should not be bannable, argue instead why it should not be considered game ruining.

Clarification of the rules can be added later on for things like this, but that doesn't mean it was 100% ok before the clarification.

*Apparently this is irrelevant, I must have misunderstood the topic*

[supersexyy]

Firstly @EdgeofChaos this complaint is not about those 'baiting' others to type -zoom normal so I think your whole post is regarding an issue which is widely regarded as against the rules.

This is about players who were retroactively banned for using -zoom normal to avoid leaver auto-bans.

Using zoom to avoid auto-bans is indeed abusing glitches and should be bannable as long as an autoban system is in place for battleships (if you wish to remove autobans for this map for whatever reason then post in suggestions not here).

As this glitch has been abused for a while now I believe the ban lengths should be ~2 days for the first week or two then it can be increased in line with other autoban-dodging durations.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Hm, sorry, I guess I misunderstood. My point does still stand though, just without using it to harm other players. It's still glitch abuse, and not just because a glitch isn't listen doesn't mean it's free to be used.

[matdas]

Players have been abusing a bug in the map to "dodge" a leaver ban. Players using this will be banned for 2 days per usage (yes, the ban lengths stack).

This has been going on for a while now. With more ban requests from bships coming in, it comes into light the different bugs/glitches/rule breaks. Sorry you can't leave or tell a noob to type -zoom normal anymore to get them or yourself to leave.
@tom_b
This falls under "game ruining" (leaving and telling noobs about it so the dysnc) and "abusing glitches" (telling noobs to use it so they drop, giving your team gold, leaving) and "abusing bot vulnerability" (dodging auto ban through glitch) within the wiki. Instead of banning you for 3 separate offenses, which would add up probably to a month, it is reduced to two days per offense.

In essence. Spread the word. Typing "zoom normal" or any variation of it with different characters "i I L l 1" or whatever to try to bend the rules and you will get banned. Tell your friends not to do it and they will not get banned. Stop ruining games for everyone else.

[aRt)Y]

@tom_b The change of rules has not affected my decision in any way. The glitch abuse falls into the categories of the general rules, therefore apply to BS as well.

zoom normal is a glitch and ban-able, telling other to use it is game ruining. I edited the rules to further clarify it (see the update reason).
It was ban-able before and is now also ban-able.