Rule change suggestion

[JSS_Elmo]

Not sure if there is a forum for these type of posts, at least i couldn't find it, so i'll just write here.

So its been some weeks now since the clogging rule has been imposed to 1200+ bot and from what i see i really don't think its a good change. ever since the rule came everyone is throwing clog accusations from left to right even tho noone is breaking the 50% value rule. a 40+ leak on 8 is instantly stamped as clog and reportet on this site. Most of the time its ignored, but take a look at this:

https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 58#p229458

I got banned for NO reason and the mod also admitted this in the end where he said "it just appered as clog". is this is a joke? Seems like a joke to me.

Anyway lets say things like this doesn't happen. is the rule good then..? Not in my opinion. heavy lumbering and low value is a required strat for many fighters (dwarvens,prisoner and more) and some of them simply dont have the opportunity to follow this rule as it will completely destroy their game. the rules basically forces the players to waste g on a tower that will maybe help him kill 1 creep which is sad, since it closes a lot of doors for some towers. And as i see it there are already enough units that are simply a no-go to ever build.

So how can this be fixed?
Tho i'd say the most optimal way is to look at it subjectively and let a mod judge whether a team is clogging or not, it's not really viable, as we can see in the link i posted. Therefore i'd rather make a rule that says that the total value of the team must be above 60% of recommended value, as this would not remove the possibilities of the single player with dwarf/meat wagon/whatever but simply prevent the team from actually clogging.
This is all i wanted to say and i hope you will take it to concideration!
Cheers

Elmo

[Qvist]

Clogg is a problem in two scenarious, otherwise not!

1. If you heavy underbuild 5-6-7-8-9 and therefor leak everylevel 90+

2. If you delay all 4 sides with small tiers on 15-17 and leak 50+ so you stuck the units so much and demon krakens get blocked = that the other team will die before with 4 heals vs 0.

In all other cases clogg isn't a problem = no need to ban for minor cloggs, for example players leak 90 units 8 but leak only 20 on 9. Sometimes a whole team just roll bad/dwarvens/greynames/halfbreeds/pyro.

[eldryan]

@JSS_Elmo

The rule is similar in theory to king juggling/etc. to gain extra time to lumber. The idea is that massing units to clog the lvl is similar exploitation if done right. Basically, however, 50% value is required to go merc. IMO the best way to counter this exploit without allowing build-value limits is to reallow merc but not allow delays. Solo building, merc will not provide any legitimate advantage except an incoming one that only exists if the opposing team delays - can have a rule that merc must build at least a minimum 3/4 value for each level - and only advantages lvls 10/14/15/16.

furthermore, it's easy to clog with 60% value avg: two at 30%, one at 60% and one at 120% is 60% average, and would leak (if mortars/wolves/bears) at least 70 units lvl 8 anyways. if you want to change this rule, you can make a post in "suggestions", but a better rule to me is that you can't send or get income unless you are 50% of value if you want to keep build limit. This way, going under recommended value does you no advantage and you can recover if you use all king leak gold for value and don't lumber. however, you won't get banned for leaking a lvl you just suck and can't hold with current units.

[Mercy]

The biggest issue was how the leaking was being handled, and the reason i banned was because your team knew to up king, waste a heal, to send heavy on 10, leaking 7&8. That is why the whole team was banned, because they made a play that is delaying time to send more. Much like what eldryan said- hence the clog which delayed and got your team banned. leaking is unavoidable with engineers, but they could hold 8, if not 7, with wolverines and halfbreed/goliath. Instead, your team pushed to send harder. Make a little more sense?

[SLSGuennter]

the "u need to have 50% of recommended value" is just an addition to the rule.
if u clog (more or less hard) while beeing above 50% of value u can still get banned!

actually the rule is: do not clog on purpose.

if u build (for example) only hydras and druids on the whole team, while u know it will be a race on 17, u can still get banned for clogging even if u have 6k val each, cause it will still clog hard in mid and it will be considered as intentionally.

[eldryan]

"if u build (for example) only hydras and druids on the whole team, while u know it will be a race on 17, u can still get banned for clogging even if u have 6k val each, cause it will still clog hard in mid and it will be considered as intentionally."

lol wtf?

[nabo.]

@JSS_Elmo
You should not have been banned since you had 4 bos and 2 wolves (400+500=900 value when half recommended for lvl 8 is 725 and 800 for lvl 9). Blue was bannable though.

Also, if there is no clog, we dont care what value you have. The value condition we have is merely to minimize clog cases and its effect. You should not try to exploit clog or underbuild too much on purpose though.

PM me for further inquiries.

the "u need to have 50% of recommended value" is just an addition to the rule.
if u clog (more or less hard) while beeing above 50% of value u can still get banned!

actually the rule is: do not clog on purpose.

if u build (for example) only hydras and druids on the whole team, while u know it will be a race on 17, u can still get banned for clogging even if u have 6k val each, cause it will still clog hard in mid and it will be considered as intentionally.

Who says?

@Mariah @Guennter Talk to me if you need clarification on how we judge clog cases for pub games.

Suggestion archived.