Battleships rules

[Win3]

-share allows people to pool gold in non-trader modes.

@aRt)y a trader is a ship that essentially gets 1 shot by anything and gives ~3x gold of normal ship on death. It's role is to bring in additional gold for the team through trade missions. A poorly played trader essentially feeds massive amount of gold to the enemy team. I realize ent is supposed to be newbie friendly, but where do you draw the line between new to the game and losing the game for your team in under 5 min?

[jew]

@art)y i suppose you can think of it as huntress continually feeding hunters in ID
trader is a really weak unit early game

@win3 how often would you say it occurs? can you provide a few replays? id disagree with making it against the rules. they can just be experienced, or they can be decent but if the opponents are pro then they don't stand a chance either way

[Win3]

how often would you say it occurs? can you provide a few replays? id disagree with making it against the rules. they can just be experienced, or they can be decent but if the opponents are pro then they don't stand a chance either way

I've seen it happen probably two or three times out of the ~150 games I have on ent. Given the bolded part, I guess its not needed.

Also, it was mentioned in a complaint that battleships is one of the few games that ent hosts on garena. I was nicely reminded (in a brq i put on someone for feeding) that we should make an effort to teach people how to play and not votekick/flame them, but what can people do about a language barrier?

[aRt)Y]

Kay. http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?title=EntGaming:BSRules are now official.
Edit: Also added bot announcement.

[Win3]

Did you really add bot announcements? the only thing about rules is "Rules are on our website"

(not sure if that was there ago)

[nabo.]

There were no rules previously...so Im assuming thats wat arty meant.

People should bother to come on the forum and check things out once in a while.

[tom_b]

Not allowed:

• Stealing enemy team's items (by burning glitch or otherwise)
• Pooling teammates via burning
• Taking teammates' items without permission
• --Only Trader Ship can pool gold
• --Telling people to type -zoom normal and a dysnc happens

Allowed:

• Burning your own items
• Backdooring

Definitions/clarification:

• Burning: picking up an item type when you already have one in the type (for example, picking up a silk sail when you have a royal sail); the picked up item is deleted from the game and 100% of its gold value is returned to player who picked it up
• -- Once changed out of the Trade ship, player can no longer pool gold
• --You cannot change to Trader Ship pool gold and change back to a regular ship to pool gold

I and many others would wholly disagree with you on the premise given for "acceptable" backdooring. It is almost always disallowed in in house games of battleships, which is where the majority of these other "rules" stem from, and opens up huge potential for exploit. Sure, you can argue in a 2v5 situation VS leaver gold, it is near impossible to fight either of the 2 in a one on one fight with any reasonable chance of success. However any decent/reasonably intelligent player should be able to clear creeps before pushing. In fact, in a 2v5 situation the team of 5 is at a huge advantage in terms of abilities/disables if any of them have half an idea how to play.

I've played games with people that abuse the hell out of the ability to backdoor when they don't feel they have a chance to win fighting fair. 2 can go intercepter with machineguns/bowmen and push the hell out of the towers early game, before people have the ability to purchase ships or items to fight back, and the rest can simply kite or distract the other players. By the time they have a fighting chance, the first row of towers are gone and the team is already at disadvantage, which only widens due to the distance required to travel

Ive played games where the teamscore has been in excess of 70 + kills vs 20 or so, yet lost due to non stop suicide/backdooring tactics. Put simply, it is night impossible for one to make a concerted effort to push and win when there are people hiding in darkspots the entire game waiting for you to appear at the top of the map so they can whittle down your buildings, however many deaths they may incur. There are certain players notorious for which I can dig up replays for, andI invite you to watch and tell me how you would have played out that "massive gold advantage" and won.

In regards to the other rules, there is far too much ambiguity within them to be considered comprehensive enough to use to ban people IMO. In reality, most potential abuses can also be considered fair play in certain situations, and rather than try strictly regulate each and every possibility, its much better that someone with experience in the game judge for themselves. I have been unfairly banned in the past by uakf.b (no grudges) for "breaking rules" and I'd not want the same to occur for others.

[*]Stealing enemy team's items (by burning glitch or otherwise)

The game my friend and I were banned by uakf.b, he decided to drop items on the ground infront of my friend in an exposed spot shortly before dying. I don't see how it was my friends fault he left them in an exposed spot, he shouldn't have been as careless. If my friend hadn't picked them up, another player would've. Yet at the same time, someone killing someone whilst shopping/burning their items in a secure area isn't fair either.

Consider also that many players drop items in their base before leaving. Not only is this unfair as the leaving team will already have a gold advantage, more often than not it is only 1 player who picks up all the items. Would it not be justified to invis teleport into their base to retrieve certain items to avoid them pooling 1 player? Where do you draw the line with this?

[*]Pooling teammates via burning

Shouldn't be allowed I agree, but as Win3 pointed out, its perfectly reasonable to burn a teammate a $200 repair crew or such as to avoid them waiting in base for a minute or 2 for the gold to trickle in. Perhaps set a limit on such in team transactions in non trader games to a nominal amount like $400-600 as to remove the potential for rife abuse.

[*]Taking teammates' items without permission
Agree with this, I've had games with friends trading where they drop sails in base for contracts (due to limited inventory of the boat) only to have them stolen by teammates etc.

[*]--Only Trader Ship can pool gold
I agree with this somewhat, as I can see how it could be abused. Yet there are many normal games where the trader will pool only 1 person, due to the exponential advantage gained by pooling 1 person as opposed to distributing gold amongst the rest of the team. Another grey area IMO.

[*] --Telling people to type -zoom normal and a dysnc happens
Its unfortunate that this happens, but it does. Yet such abuse occurs not only from those hoping to disconnect their team members, but also from those who use it as a method to win. Disconnecting via the -zoom normal command allows people to avoid the ent autoban system, as it causes a desync rather than voluntary disconnect. There are many players whom abuse this and type it at the first sight the game is not going well for them, in the hope that the gold advantage offered to their team in lieu of their absence carry them to victory.

Ideally, a large number of these problems could be solved by better game design, but as a 2nd best solution I'd say its a better idea to have several admins familiar with the game review these sort of things rather than try and have a strict set of rules for anything.

[aRt)Y]

Did you really add bot announcements? the only thing about rules is "Rules are on our website"

[Attention] Check out wiki.entgaming.net for the new official Battleships rules.

It isn't possible to add more because the rules are rather long.

Its unfortunate that this happens, but it does. Yet such abuse occurs not only from those hoping to disconnect their team members, but also from those who use it as a method to win. Disconnecting via the -zoom normal command allows people to avoid the ent autoban system, as it causes a desync rather than voluntary disconnect. There are many players whom abuse this and type it at the first sight the game is not going well for them, in the hope that the gold advantage offered to their team in lieu of their absence carry them to victory.

Zoom can be reported and it will be handled as non-leaving.

Stealing enemy team's items (by burning glitch or otherwise)

Why isn't it like in DotA, ban-able, too?

[Win3]

Ive played games where the teamscore has been in excess of 70 + kills vs 20 or so, yet lost due to non stop suicide/backdooring tactics. Put simply, it is night impossible for one to make a concerted effort to push and win when there are people hiding in darkspots the entire game waiting for you to appear at the top of the map so they can whittle down your buildings, however many deaths they may incur. There are certain players notorious for which I can dig up replays for, andI invite you to watch and tell me how you would have played out that "massive gold advantage" and won.

If you lose to non-stop suicide tactics, I feel like you're playing it wrong (on even teams), as you either should a) be getting massive free gold from the suicider or b) be winning every teamfight and 5 people demolish a base faster than 1 guy.

When its 2v5 and you're the team of two, yeah it sucks. But what are you going to do about the rules? Its either no BD and screw the team of 5 or yes BD and screw the team of 2.

It is almost always disallowed in in house games of battleships, which is where the majority of these other "rules" stem from, and opens up huge potential for exploit. Sure, you can argue in a 2v5 situation VS leaver gold, it is near impossible to fight either of the 2 in a one on one fight with any reasonable chance of success. However any decent/reasonably intelligent player should be able to clear creeps before pushing. In fact, in a 2v5 situation the team of 5 is at a huge advantage in terms of abilities/disables if any of them have half an idea how to play.

1) House games don't (in general) have enough leavers to force 2v5.
2) Being at a team of 5 depends heavily on when the leavers happened and how far appart. Having 3 people leave at once 5 min in is far different than 3 people leaving in 5 minute intervals at minute 15/20/25. This really goes back to the earlier point on which side you want to screw

[mich_vee]

@nabo. @uakf.b
Please include the trader-lumber glitch in the rules. How does it work? You will need a trader boat so this works on normal and accelerated normal modes only. Once a trader has obtained any amount of lumber, he assigns gold AND lumber to an ally at the same time. This causes the targeted ally to get disconnected. Trader loses his gold but gets back his lumber.
In previous versions of battleships, traders were able to share lumber so the current map version supposedly "fixed" this by disallowing traders to share lumber only to give way to a glitch.

Reference: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=3527835, Kingkong. used the glitch in-game kicked all his allies and enjoyed the gold throughout the game. It happens really quick you have to watch the lumber count it will go 0 and back to 1 fast then bye bye ally.

[uakf.b]

@mich_vee abusing obvious glitches is covered by general rules.

[mich_vee]

I understand however a lot of battleship players are unaware of glitches being abused in their games. Since the -zoom normal glitch was included in specific BS Rules I thought the lumber glitch also needs to be included in the bs rules

[tom_b]

If you lose to non-stop suicide tactics, I feel like you're playing it wrong (on even teams), as you either should a) be getting massive free gold from the suicider or b) be winning every teamfight and 5 people demolish a base faster than 1 guy.

When its 2v5 and you're the team of two, yeah it sucks. But what are you going to do about the rules? Its either no BD and screw the team of 5 or yes BD and screw the team of 2.

1) House games don't (in general) have enough leavers to force 2v5.
2) Being at a team of 5 depends heavily on when the leavers happened and how far appart. Having 3 people leave at once 5 min in is far different than 3 people leaving in 5 minute intervals at minute 15/20/25. This really goes back to the earlier point on which side you want to screw

I never said the teams were fair, and even with a massive gold advantage it even more so incentivises the enemy to just base zerg rather than teamfight, against which there is nothing you can do. You can't push, or they BD. You can try defend, but they will just suicide zerg instead. Its stupid for the same reason 5v5 SRS jug is stupid, there is no reason to even bother attacking the enemy when you can run straight to base.

Hypothetical scenarios aside, I don't really believe its in the spirit of the game to ignore enemy players and simply go after structures. Also, I reiterate my position that it's really not difficult to push creeps before attacking structures. Clear creeps = not BD. I don't see how this is unfair or unreasonable as a requirement, even in a leaver gold situation.

[Stealer]

Spirit of the game is to win, you're a fucking pirate.
Honestly, show some replays. If the team being backdoored is really stronger they should be able to push to win.

More importantly, I read through the chat of like your last 10 games and saw 0 complaints against backdooring or really anything but your teammates. These strategies you're trying to get banned don't seem like they happen.

[tom_b]

Spirit of the game is to win, you're a fucking pirate.
Honestly, show some replays. If the team being backdoored is really stronger they should be able to push to win.

More importantly, I read through the chat of like your last 10 games and saw 0 complaints against backdooring or really anything but your teammates. These strategies you're trying to get banned don't seem like they happen.

Thank you for taking the time to read through and analyse the chat transcript of my last 10 games. Though flattering you've taken the time to do so, It's quite clear your reading comprehension is somewhat limited, evident by how blatantly you've ignored my past 2 posts detailing why simply being able to "push to win" often isn't an option.

Just because I don't complain about BD on a game-to-game basis doesn't mean it isn't an issue. If anything, the fact that I don't complain as vehemently as you might like might imply a general acceptance of the lack of policing/rule enforcement on the bot. I simply don't have the time or effort to submit a ban request every game due to some infringement which I can usually overcome, regardless of legality. I'd rather play TBH.

This and your last shitpost (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32621) meant absolutely nothing, and i'm still not entirely sure what kind of point you're trying to propagate other than the fact that I'm in the wrong. I'd welcome an actual discussion as to why, rather than simply stating your unsupported opinion.