the same adm doing the appeal

[Raizen]

I think is bad the same adm do the appeal for the ban he applied.

Like the last appeal posted:

since you can't understand what "don't ruin the game on purpose" means or/and make a complaint about my conduct about this ban. :3

"ruin the game" is completely destroy the game for all players
there is no such thing at that game

when a game is ruined usually everyone rage quit or the game end by it self in less than 1 min
for me do a game without fow is more game ruiner than use a game command
nothing of that is game ruiner

[Revis]

The reason the game was "ruined" was because team 1 leaked all their spawns....
How this is bannable is lol. Its not like team 1 would have prevailed despite an antistuck.
But yes your point is valid, same admin should prob not deal with his own appeals.

[cyberpunk]

Different than others communities our admins don't rage at others, they think before they make a decision.
So I don't see any problem when the same admin is replying the ban appeal for the ban made by him.

To anyone who wants give some input, please follow the links:
His ban
His appeal
The game:

957732.w3g

[ENT] Legion TD Mega #47

(555.59 KiB) Downloaded 48 times

Please watch the time 11:03 and 12:40, look at red units Pyro, snipers & zeus..

[spoiler=Antistucks by raizen and revis]1:06 <Raizen> 0x10: Immediate order: ancestralspirit (flags: 0x0040)
2:05 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: 3571.7, Y: -2379.0, flags: 0x0040)
2:12 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: 3654.4, Y: -2099.4, flags: 0x0040)
3:27 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5313.9, Y: 3238.8, flags: 0x0040)
5:58 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5362.3, Y: 5132.8, flags: 0x0040)
6:13 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5382.1, Y: 3675.0, flags: 0x0040)
6:20 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5373.6, Y: 4889.9, flags: 0x0040)
7:52 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5671.7, Y: 2988.7, flags: 0x0040)
7:54 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5490.8, Y: 4378.3, flags: 0x0040)
8:43 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5357.2, Y: 3306.0, flags: 0x0040)
9:13 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5534.9, Y: 5282.6, flags: 0x0040)
9:28 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5463.3, Y: 4266.7, flags: 0x0040)
9:29 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5472.8, Y: 4329.9, flags: 0x0040)
9:34 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5651.5, Y: 5755.7, flags: 0x0040)
9:35 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5654.8, Y: 5597.6, flags: 0x0040)
10:32 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5386.3, Y: 3301.0, flags: 0x0040)
11:02 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5466.0, Y: 4578.7, flags: 0x0040)
11:04 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5591.5, Y: 5503.5, flags: 0x0040)
11:18 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5398.8, Y: 3329.7, flags: 0x0040)
12:18 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5360.4, Y: 3277.4, flags: 0x0040)
12:49 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5328.5, Y: 5355.4, flags: 0x0040)
12:50 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5548.6, Y: 5525.7, flags: 0x0040)
13:04 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5355.8, Y: 4168.8, flags: 0x0040)
13:07 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5245.1, Y: 4515.6, flags: 0x0040)
13:10 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5441.3, Y: 5178.4, flags: 0x0040)
13:17 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5348.7, Y: 4334.7, flags: 0x0040)
13:23 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5197.6, Y: 4963.8, flags: 0x0040)
13:30 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5453.5, Y: 5143.5, flags: 0x0040)
13:34 <Revis> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5369.7, Y: 5288.4, flags: 0x0040)
13:40 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5223.7, Y: 4291.5, flags: 0x0040)
13:47 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5488.4, Y: 4481.7, flags: 0x0040)
13:53 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5346.8, Y: 5365.1, flags: 0x0040)
14:04 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5236.9, Y: 5110.1, flags: 0x0040)
14:10 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5509.7, Y: 5385.2, flags: 0x0040)
14:16 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5515.5, Y: 5710.2, flags: 0x0040)
19:35 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5460.5, Y: 3298.7, flags: 0x0040)
20:03 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5382.8, Y: 4623.6, flags: 0x0040)
20:14 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5446.7, Y: 3872.4, flags: 0x0040)
20:24 <Raizen> 0x11: Point order: ancestralspirit (X: -5296.6, Y: 3609.5, flags: 0x0040)[/spoiler]

@Revis, First off, you was banned because you are leaver dude, I had to remove your ban to apply this one. ¬¬

Note: I regret my call. I think I should have ban you both for a week or so. When an admin play with his friends/clanmates, he won't be watching them all the time because the admin thinks they will follow the rules.

[matdas]

For the complaint itself. I find that having the same admin do the appeal that they placed is wrong. Their judgement is obscured for it affected them in the game. Having a 3rd party outside of the one doing the investigation inside the ban to find if the person deserves the ban to be lifted is needed.

As for the ban itself on using the anti-stuck tool:
1. The anti-stuck tool is used to move units that are "stuck" preventing the game from continuing.
2. Using the anti-stuck to move your own units back to the center to grab the leaks from your lane partner for full value (debatable)
3. Using the anti-stuck on a teammate or enemy unit to have them leak or prevent the unit from going to the king is game ruining. What was done in this game falls 100% under the rules for game ruining. Using the anti-stuck as a tool to attack the other team is outright wrong. The tool is used to have the game proceed, not to be used as a weapon for winning the game.

[Revis]

Yes however we are not here to discuss the auto ban i recieved lol.

We are here to discuss how easily power can be abused when the same admin is the judge on his own appeal.

Thanks :3

[Revis]

Different than others communities our admins don't rage at others, they think before they make a decision.
So I don't see any problem when the same admin is replying the ban appeal for the ban made by him.

So your reasoning is that all of ents admins are above making mistakes and getting emotionally invested in their bans?? Lol this made me laugh

[cyberpunk]

So your reasoning is that all of ents admins are above making mistakes and getting emotionally invested in their bans??

I didn't say that.
Will be a pleasure to explain to you how we work, if the admin banned the player x and this player x made an appeal, Then the admin will review the replay and make his decision, he won't denied without a good reason. Get involved with our forum and you will see a good examples.

[Raizen]

For the complaint itself. I find that having the same admin do the appeal that they placed is wrong. Their judgement is obscured for it affected them in the game. Having a 3rd party outside of the one doing the investigation inside the ban to find if the person deserves the ban to be lifted is needed.

agree

As for the ban itself on using the anti-stuck tool:
1. The anti-stuck tool is used to move units that are "stuck" preventing the game from continuing.
2. Using the anti-stuck to move your own units back to the center to grab the leaks from your lane partner for full value (debatable)
3. Using the anti-stuck on a teammate or enemy unit to have them leak or prevent the unit from going to the king is game ruining. What was done in this game falls 100% under the rules for game ruining. Using the anti-stuck as a tool to attack the other team is outright wrong. The tool is used to have the game proceed, not to be used as a weapon for winning the game.

i made the number 2 matdas
red killed blue units...
i didnt let the king without cover

any way he made crap non-fow mode
with that he ruined my tactics to save while he can spam units to rush income, cuz he could see everything that i was doing
since he made a game without fow, my anti stuck work at enemy side (he made that choice, not me, so deal with it)
i was using has a tactic to remove extra bouncing not to destroy the game (was his game modes not mine)

[cyberpunk]

3. Using the anti-stuck on a teammate or enemy unit to have them leak or prevent the unit from going to the king is game ruining. What was done in this game falls 100% under the rules for game ruining. Using the anti-stuck as a tool to attack the other team is outright wrong. The tool is used to have the game proceed, not to be used as a weapon for winning the game.

Do you agree they did it in that game?
Just take a look at the replay, time +- 12:40

20:00 too.

[Raizen]

3. Using the anti-stuck on a teammate or enemy unit to have them leak or prevent the unit from going to the king is game ruining. What was done in this game falls 100% under the rules for game ruining. Using the anti-stuck as a tool to attack the other team is outright wrong. The tool is used to have the game proceed, not to be used as a weapon for winning the game.

Do you agree they did it in that game?
Just take a look at the replay, time +- 12:40

since the red can make any crap modes he must deal with it in game
he choice non fow game to see all game
so i could use the game tool against him

[Nz.Death]

Its sounds like what you did in that game was out of spite and to ruin it for the other team (win it for you). Did you think that he mightve forgot to put that command in?

[Revis]

So your reasoning is that all of ents admins are above making mistakes and getting emotionally invested in their bans??

I didn't say that.
Will be a pleasure to explain to you how we work, if the admin banned the player x and this player x made an appeal, Then the admin will review the replay and make his decision, he won't denied without a good reason. Get involved with our forum and you will see a good examples.

You ask me to get involved then you paint the forum as a place without any justice. No thank you lol.
I know you cyb3rpunk are personally spiteful so I find it odd that there is not some sort of system where other admins are in place to review appeals for bans which are not their own. This way spiteful admins with alot of pride will not abuse

[Raizen]

Its sounds like what you did in that game was out of spite and to ruin it for the other team (win it for you). Did you think that he mightve forgot to put that command in?

maybe he forgot or typed wrong or he wanted it (but i dont think that make difference since i never requests a ban for him or anything). Make the game without fow is allowed too. And that could be also considered game ruiner to destroy some tactics like saving for "key waves" game. The enemy can see what ur are doing.

i was playing to win the game for sure, but not to destroy the game for everyone

he could use the same command at me (the anti stuck) is only unfair with mh

[Revis]

[/quote]I didn't say that.[\quote]
Actually you did if you press page back one time.
You said ent admins are better than admins at other forums therefore you dont find a problem with them dealing with their own appeals. Please correct me but maybe im reading your comment wrong?
I seem to be confused as to why you believe ent admins [such as yourself] are beyond the realm of mistake or emotional investment when you personally have shown so clearly time after time that they are not.
I dont believe you are a bad admin i just believe that you are no where near level-headed enough to deal with your own appeals. I believe few would be thats why a system should be in place.

[karasu.]

Why does it matter if the administrator who made the ban also handles their appeal?