Honest Criticism

[StoPCampinGn00b]

To start, this is not a rant. This is not me throwing ENT under the bus. In fact, I'm quite fond of things are operating here except for one thing, the amount of autohosted bots.

I 100% feel that there is an excessive amount of autohosting bots. 40-60% of the lobbies are 0/x depending on the time of the day. I'm not sure how the system works on what bots are purged, but to me, this is very detrimental to the battle.net community. It especially drives returning age old Warcraft 3 players away (which from my experience on websites hiveworkshop.com & diplomunion.com, it happens frequently) because they would think it's dead. I also think it would help the image of ent.

I hate to say it, but I know so many people that blame ENT for screwing up Warcraft 3's battle.net. I want to argue against them, but inside I can't say I fully deny it. What I could say is that it's better than an uinorganized frenzy of 0/x lobbies 90% of them being DotA like it's been a few years ago, but I don't because that won't change their opinion. It also makes me look desperate in defending something I don't fully believe in. I believe that you guys could be doing so much better in helping the battle.net community out. Yeah, banning leavers, affiliating makemehost who affiliate other sites to unite the community is awesome, but it simply isn't enough.

So I plea, why are there still so many bots up that rarely fill? I'm guessing you guys have a chart somewhere tracking the activity and already do take some down, but I think there needs to be an overhaul. As for the number that should be taken out, I'd say the latter 30% would be reasonable? I'd push for as high as 65 but that might be too unfair to ENT... in some way I don't know (enlighten me!). I don't see the incentive of keeping inactive hosting bots up. Sure, you'd upset a small fanbase... or actually you wouldn't because they can host on their own via MMH or ENT anyway.

Thanks for reading and I hope not to offend anybody. Cheers!

[nabo.]

All in all, I can tell you that hosting bots and ENT are one of the main reasons why wc3 is still alive and kickin.

Code: Select all

Bot ID   Games in last week   Last gamename
18   2493   [ENT] Legion TD Mega #82
11   2363   [ENT] DotA apem us/ca #47
86   1653   [ENT] Burbenog TD #67
96   1506   [ENT] Legion TD Mega euro #72
35   1489   [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #89
57   1397   [ENT] Legion TD 3.5 Beta #0
13   1382   [ENT] Wintermaul One #42
5   1345   [ENT] LTD x10 2v2 #88
38   1246   [ENT] DotA arem us/ca #35
73   1101   [ENT] LoD -sdems6bod2 #26
20   1089   [ENT] YouTD #64
14   1066   [ENT] Gem TD #31
31   844   [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #37
1   754   [ENT] Castle Fight! #98
4   643   [ENT] Castle Fight 2v2 #8
65   643   [ENT] Castle Fight 1v1 #87
90   631   [ENT] DotA apem euro #35
60   519   [ENT] Island Defense #6
15   457   [ENT] Survival Chaos #15
39   456   [ENT] \/\/ /\/\ \/\/ #32
54   428   [ENT] Hero Line Wars #87
63   378   [ENT] X Hero Siege #69
74   366   [ENT] Element TD #92
61   330   [ENT] BattleShip Crossfire #46
305   328   mil2
313   303   mc97
308   302   marija83
306   302   ent2
309   299   Masin Rpg !!
317   296   marija29
304   293   mc100
311   284   mc86
301   281   ent4
87   280   [ENT] Risk Devolution #81
310   278   rokubi23
303   278   ent6
71   276   [ENT] NWU -sdsm #27
316   275   ent5
315   269   chom1k66
16   266   [ENT] Civilization Wars #1
307   263   loner
47   253   Jurassic Park Survival! #94
312   246   zero[vampire]50
23   217   [ENT] Troll and Elves #42
12   208   [ENT] Fortress Survival! #15
19   153   [ENT] Battleships Pro 5v5 #90
22   151   [ENT] Legion TD Mega 2v2 #33
117   149   FOCS 2vs2
115   146   TBR!
103   146   VAMP SPEED +1 JOIN FAST!!
53   139   [ENT] Castle Defense #83
107   139   Shdr +2
108   138   AHA! +1
104   137   player13foc83
701   134   Masin RPG
110   132   moddex10
111   130   player13foc61
41   130   [ENT] Azeroth Wars #20
106   127   Shdr02
116   127   SQ01
109   126   Legion TD X20
102   126   Legion TD x20
48   125   [ENT] Green TD Mega #74
119   125   FARM VS HUNTER DA INDIAA
112   124   lich07
204   118   SYLVRPG
101   117   Siege of Quel'thalas
704   117   llanza0582
203   115   Elven HERO DEFENSE +2
702   114   DawnOfTheDead
105   111   tomaterock35
703   108   DotD
37   107   [ENT] Angel Arena Allstars #13
118   105   Heroic Town ONLY PRO
201   104   HERO DEFENSE! Elven HARD Rmk
3   104   [ENT] Pokemon Defense #36
202   97   pronavsesto12
114   83   Fight of Animeeeee
27   82   lihl16a
6   78   [ENT] Tropical Tower Wars #2
28   71   lihl92x
52   71   [ENT] Blood Tournament TD #65
59   59   [ENT] Hero Line Wars Deluxe #60
78   47   [ENT] Hero Line Wars RoC #5
36   45   [ENT] Line Tower Wars #59
7   27   [ENT] DotA apem #27
33   27   [ENT] Uther Party #60
32   25   [ENT] Platform Escape #98
29   25   [ENT] Rabbits vs Sheep #24
801   22   Tree Tag! 2 MORE ONLY
83   20   [ENT] Warlock #18
2   20   [ENT] Are you a lucker? #60
113   19   Rise of Civilizations! #77
34   17   [ENT] Power Towers #98
9   13   [ENT] Archer Wars Legacy #56
62   10   [ENT] Custom Hero Arena #78
502   10   SexyvUltra1
25   10   [ENT] Pudge Wars #57
64   9   [ENT] Dragon Ball X #68
49   8   [ENT] Enfo's TS #28
602   6   dom1nati0n41
601   4   theone100028
21   4   [ENT] Hero Wars #25
8   3   [ENT] Banjoball #56
77   2   [ENT] Legion TD rmk #32
51   1   [ENT] Team Line Tower Wars #25
604   1   GOLEM WARS!! +1
603   1   acutesharpness11
10   0   [ENT] DotA arem #2
26   0   [ENT] Download DotA 6.83d #1
89   0   [ENT] Tom and Jerry #42
91   0   [ENT] DotA ap euro #9
92   0   [ENT] DotA LoD sds6bod2 EU #2
93   0   [ENT] DotA ar euro #1
94   0   [ENT] DotA sd euro #1

Here is the bots' current activity.
Yes, we do have some 0-10 game bots, but not that many. Removing a few will not make any difference.
We do change the game map of inactive bots when they do not fill.

Our hosting bots (autohosted and priv hosting) are usually a lot better than most individual bots. Players are free to private host with our bots whenever they wish.

It is true that ENT is the biggest hosting provider on wc3, but I still see many other hosting bots by other providers and players on the custom game list.

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Hmm, that's pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I guess things aren't that bad as people always rant about - though when is ranting ever accurate?

However, I'm still concerned about a few things.

There are 25 that got less than 25 or less games last week. That's not really a few. A game with 25 per week gets an average of 3.6 games a day. That's really inactive imo.

How would removing more not make a difference? It's the difference between user games starting and filling up faster / slower. It saddens me when there are two+ games of the same version up at the same time with few players in each that would return back to zero players, get unhosted, or have it take an eternity. If there was just one up, that game would fill.

If it actually does not make a difference to remove more, wouldn't removing it give ENT a better reputation on trying to reduce inactive lobbies? You're hurting near no one when you take the most inactive ones off because 1. Barely anyone plays them and 2. they can host for themselves unlike in the past.

Our hosting bots (autohosted and priv hosting) are usually a lot better than most individual bots. Players are free to private host with our bots whenever they wish.

I agree with this except that it seems like the average makemehost bot fills much, much faster than the average ent autohosted bot. I don't think you can compare to ENT's individual bots because that's not what ENT's public image has been.

It is true that ENT is the biggest hosting provider on wc3, but I still see many other hosting bots by other providers and players on the custom game list.

Ah, of course. They usually tend to be less active. I came here to express my opinions on how ent can help the battle.net community, at least little by little.

[nabo.]

25 games are fine per week. Even if it doesnt fill as fast or is not played as much as other bots, people play them.

Fill rate depends on what game you play. Makemhost games are priv games. You are only thinking about ent autohosted, but we also have many priv games hosted: https://entgaming.net/link/host_add.php ... w+all+maps

It is not the number bots that people should complain about, but their own ineffective hosting. Many hosts dont have multi-realm capability, a stable server location, higher refresh rate, etc... = which is why they should just use our free hosting services.

[StoPCampinGn00b]

25 games are fine per week. Even if it doesnt fill as fast or is not played as much as other bots, people play them.

I beg to differ. Have you got no comment on what I said about how much little of an effect it has, if any negative effect at all? These very few people could just host their own. I think it's worth the trade off to put more people into user hosting than autohosting. That's what the super majority I've talked to anywhere would like. I'm not for banning all bots as I know they can sometimes create small communities but only if the activity rate is high enough. Games 25 and less have zero people in it 95%+ of the time.

Fill rate depends on what game you play. Makemhost games are priv games. You are only thinking about ent autohosted, but we also have many priv games hosted: https://entgaming.net/link/host_add.php ... w+all+maps

I'm aware about how fill rate works. The more popular the game, the faster. However, that's not the only factor. Factors include if its autohosted or user hosted along with if there are multiple games up. An Uther Party hosted by a user on MMH or ENT is always starting faster than the autohosted one on ENT. Same as Azeroth Wars. Same as Banjoball. Same as Wintermaul, Warlock, etc. Yes, this is all anecdotal but I simply don't have any other way to prove this. That is what I see.

Also, how are mmh hosts private games? That's a bit of an off-topic but I'm wondering why you use that term :p

It is not the number bots that people should complain about, but their own ineffective hosting. Many hosts dont have multi-realm capability, a stable server location, higher refresh rate, etc... = which is why they should just use our free hosting services.

The fact that players are spread out across multiple bots in a small player base that is Warcraft 3's is a rightful thing to be concerned about. I'm not disregarding all of the ENT bots features which are pretty neat, it's just that the amount of them causes those to be overlooked because of how it is indeed an issue according to most people.

[nabo.]

We do have a lot of users hosting. When I say priv games, i meant user hosting games via our bots.

Bots wont be removed despite what you and few of the people you talked to believe. The players who I know whom host non-autohosted custom games, have no problems filling their games. If youd like a certain game to be autohosted instead of one of our inactive bots, do suggest.

Playerbase is important, but you cant speak for everyone when everyone has a choice to play with a certain community, host, etc.

If you host via your own bot and you have the right settings, your game wont be overlooked. I dont see why people cannot host their games via our bots instead of their own personal hosting.

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I know you guys do have a lot of users hosting, I didn't deny that. I'm just thinking that people would appreciate it more if the games user hosted on ENT we're more common than autohosted ones for obvious reason; wait time.

I wasn't referring to personal bots anywhere actually. More so MMH and ENT user hosted ones. I have no problems with these, they work great but they could work better if player bases weren't split. I just don't like to see empty and low lobbies when they could have more success being user hosted. I just kind of wanted an answer to why there are still many inactive lobbies being hosted and if they could they be removed. I did get the answers, it's that it doesn't affect things much and the small amount of people that join it keep it "alive" and you guys won't do it. I somewhat I'm satisfied with that answer because it's an actual answer, though I'm not convinced that the right thing to do in order to keep the Warcraft 3 community in well being nor it being a valid reason to keep them running.

Personally, I don't want any of my favorite maps being autohosted (some already are) because it seems like they just fill slower and they split playerbases. I'll stick with using MMH and your guys' auto host bots.

Anyway, thanks for responding. Maybe I'm done here, idk :3
+Thanks

[I_kill_satan]

25 games are fine per week.

If we talk about criticism. Well. I suggested to auto host Paladin TD and it was denied by uak without any logical reason; i have a lot of players support, as high as it is reasonably achievable in "auto host suggestions" thread wich have really low viewing stats. But i m quite sure that Pala TD could have at least 25 games per day (even despite it have 10+ players slots, btw).

I auto host it alot of times and every time i had all lobby filling fast.

Isnt that mean that Ent are not trying to improve its player base? I think it is.

[nabo.]

@StoPCampinGn00b2
Despite my belief that our bots have the least lag or compromising settings which can satisfy most bnet players on multi realms and platforms, it is true that for some, mmh bots lag less for them.

You can ask @art)y who is also an admin on mmh about mmh vs ent and if anything could be done to benefit the whole wc3 community (ex. Less spliting playerbase).

Compared to long ago when there were more competitive hosting bots, i think we r ok atm. If games werent actually filling, i would also think somethin has to be done to unite playerbase.

Another differentiation point between autohosted and user hosted is that we regulate autohosted games through rules and moderation. So, players are able to report game ruiners and we are able to keep a certain quality of gaming. Also, we have rankings and game stats for autohosted games: https://entgaming.net/openstats/

Ty for your feedback. I really appreciate ur honesty and concerns for wc3 as a whole. Not many people think about the bigger picture. You are actually not the first to have approached me with regards to our number of autohosted bots. I will keep ur feedback noted.

@i_kill_satan i approved ur suggestion for trial, but uak denied it, so too bad. He is da boss. You can perhaps try pming him?
As far as autohosting, not long ago, we swapped inactive bots with new maps and have been experimenting and updatting dota, ltd, id, nwu, etc maps. (Ofc, credits go to mapmakers) So, we have done something.

[aRt)Y]

I am surprised this discussion keeps popping up once every few months.

tl;dr;
ENT and MMH are not going to be merged and will not merge their bots or anything else (due to personal and technical reasons).

ENT has already removed few bots and obviously, many more could be removed (no secret, duh). However, uak is in charge and has shown little to no effort removing inactive bots even after the staff has suggested so. We will see how it goes in the future. Perhaps we can set it as a new year's resolution. Other than that, this discussion is an endless thread of pros and cons without a final decision in sigh.

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Forgot to reply. Anyway, this stuff is good to hear.

Oh, arty, I wasn't suggesting a merge. Just a removal of a few bots. I know that you haven't stated that you thought that was one of my intentions, but to clarify just in case, it wasn't and isn't. I respect the independence

[NotYacapo]

Sorry for commenting so late but does Tom and Jerry ever fill? I haven't been on for years but every time I join it's empty I've attempted at least 15 times but it would fill like DotA or ID 2 years ago can somebody inform me what happen? I can see what this guy is saying remove games like Tom that never fill

[nabo.]

@NotYacapo

Majority of the Tom and Jerry players were from Garena.

Tom and Jerry became inactive ever since garena restricted their LAN.

[Burn]

SG players are still playing WC3 Garena, SG tower defense room 04.

-Burn